Rank: Forum user 
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Hi ALL
I was just wondering what experiences forum users have with regards to internal politics within there establishments between Health and Safety practioners and Human Resources departments.
I seem to be at loggerheads on what seems to be a daily basis now with my Head of HR and would be interested to hear if this is a common theme within other forum users workplaces. I have come from a construction/civil engineering background to a low risk office environment. Major culture change and pace of things is something I am finding hard to adjust to but the bigger problem is the HR department.
HR seem to think they should be involved with h&s where as i see there role as well dealing with Human Resources lol.
In addition if any one has any tips and advuice on conflict resolution within the workplace it would be most gratefully accepted.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Funny enough my desk sits snug within the HR open office lol
My direct report is the HR director and to be honest in my environment it's an important issue to work closely with HR in a great deal of aspects, often more than other services.
We develop many new and existing policies to align alongside each other and also involved in a lot of meetings within the group.
At the end of the day you both act as support for senior managers so would be in everyone interests to provide a joint up approach and of course there will be disagreements but then again avoid the brick wall mentality!
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Rank: Forum user
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In my organisation H&S sits within the Facilities Management team and I find this works well, at least I know when we have contractors on site!
Involvement with HR is limited but works well, I get involved with HR in new staff induction, training, occ health screenings, stress assessments and in writing up or reviewing various policies/procedures.
HR keep me informed of any H&S issues raised via reviews, return to work interviews and general health issues for existing or new staff, but they leave the H&S side for me to deal with. Likewise when staff raise a 'Health & Safety' issue with me that turns out to be a people management issue, I pass onto them. It works well - so far!
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would argue that we should all work together but I find that in most situations I have experience of certain factions are empire building and are on the side [where we should not take sides but we all should be looking to obey the law and the policies of the business] of management irrespective of the situation and they are seen by many as a managers friend where H&S is not seen as the managers friend
Things will not change unless the top person in any 1 organisation wants things to change
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Rank: Guest
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The HR/OSH interface is an outcome of twentieth-century evolutiion of managerial roles which Bob's observation about the 'manager's friend' to some extent accounts for very often.
A root problem is the lack of common training with the outcome that the professional knowledge base of both roles still differ greatly yet unnecessarily.
In terms of conflict management, if you want to adopt a negotiating approach, the guidance written by Harvard psychologist Max Bazerman is hard to beat. Alternatively or as well, if you want to develop your own role in a way that reflects top-class research which up-to-date HR practitioners are familar with, read the guide by Yorkshire psychologist, Dom Cooper, CFIOSH, 'Behavioral Safety. A Framework for Success' and create common ground with HR practitioners interested in 'successfully' creating value together.
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Rank: Guest
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Lojik....
Perhaps the simplest way ahead for you may be to recognise the fallacy in your own expressed belief:
'HR seem to think they should be involved with h&s where as i see there role as well dealing with Human Resources lol'.
In reality, it is lawful and necessary for HR practitioner to involve them careselves very precisely in how managers perform their H & S responisbilities as well as how recruitment, selection and training processes contribute to high standards of H & S outcomes. Details of how 'performance management', recruitment, selection and training are conducted varies across organisations but inclusion of H & S in these areas of responsibility of HR is necessary.
This comes to mind on receiving a request from an EHS Manager about how to resolve problems with managers he's been failing with for 4 years. When asked what he did to train them, to supply them with up-to-date survey information about safe behaviour data, and to dovetail H & S objectives with performance management goals of managers, his answer in all cases was simply 'Nothing!'.
Nothing into managment behaviour for 4 years produced consistent H & S outcomes of no management outcome and avoidable levels of injuries, absences, surgery and increased insurance premiums. While HR were indirectly responsible, I had brought his choices to his personal attention 22 months ago.
For where HR and OSH both fail in these respects, you can easily have the basis for insoluble problems of failure in legal compliance resulting in chronic waste, avoidable injuries, absence and injuries as well as very low esteem for H & S (as well as HR) on the part of managers and other staff.
So, a relatively low-cost option for you appears to lie in either understanding how performance management in your organisation can harmonise with your H & S objectives or figuring out how to introduce appropriate performance management about H & S objectives. This doesn't rely much on bothering senior management to do more than come into the 21st century in the conduct of H R (and H & S), with at most the cost of training managers and perhaps yourself if you're not familiar with performance management
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Rank: Super forum user 
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What an interesting post!
I am in much the same situation as MB1 in that I sit with and report through HR and I have found this to be fruitful, helpful and mutually beneficial relationship. There have been occasions where I have thought or sensed that there was some conflicts of interest but these have been few, far between and relatively minor; and for the most part resolvable.
I do wonder if Kieran has rather hit the metaphorical nail on the head in #6. I also wonder if the transition into a completely different environment has a part to play. The best advice I can give is to work with HR not against them. There are very few occasions where I have had any major confrontation with HR, per se, and where we haven't been able to reach an accommodation or understanding. It might be worth looking inwards!
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Rank: Forum user
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guys
wow. . . very interesting responses from all and certainly given me food for thought.
Thanks to all and have a good weekend
L.
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Rank: Guest
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Lojikglos
.... It occurs to me that perhaps your HR manager might feel pleased to have a conversation with you about how he/she might provide information that enables you to work with managers to raise their level of performance about safety?
In the past couple of decades, the use of valid measures of personality, motivation and of performance has improved a lot in the HR professon in the UK. To the extent that this may be the case in your organisation, perhaps the H R people may be in a position to discuss how measures of this kind can be used to contribute to the quality of conversations with managers about safety.
Tim Marsh, CFIOSH, one of the UK's leading 'behavioural safety' practitioners, reckons thet the most vital form of 'root cause analysis' of accidents and near-miss incidents addresses the motives of the behaviour to which accidents/incidents are attriubted Perhaps you might consider collaborating with HR if you wished to try out root cause analysis of this kind?
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