Rank: Forum user 
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Guys, would appreciate some input into the following senario.
Our operations are about to incorporate the working within up to 2000mm deep oil & gas well heads (onshore), we are conducting 2 generic RA to cover concrete formed and corrugated metal sheetings within. the work will only consist of servicing the well head and will not involve any hot works and the only tools to be used will be hand tools i.e. spanners, wrenches.
The work party will be 2 operators and both will be trained and certified for confined space with breathing apparatus and without, Gas Detection and Fire Watch. the nature of the work on average will only take 5 hours in total, 3.5 hrs for ourselves and 1.5 for the subcontractor.
We have assessed the need for the winch and it adds around 15-20% time onto the works through rig up and down and also that i am a bit concerned to secondary hazards such as manual handling and property damage to the well head.
These operations will be carried out on a daily occurence, so my query is would it be advisable to look more into some level of winch type equipment. I would like to say that yes it would but considering that the (IMO) most significant risk is the release of hydrocarbons and this is already controlled through shut down and continous gas monitoring.
Would greatly appreciate any and all input
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Chris
Having read your thread I cannot see what assistance you are looking for? Apologies in advance if I have missed the obvious.
Ray
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Rank: Forum user
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Ray, thaks for pointing that out I got a bit preoccupied with describing the details.
(Quote) "We have assessed the need for the winch and it adds around 15-20% time onto the works through rig up and down and also that i am a bit concerned to secondary hazards such as manual handling and property damage to the well head"
It is this part I would like some feedback on.
Ladder use over winch type equipment when using gas monitoring device?
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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Generic risk assessments; in my view, are only any good for certain things and this is not one of them
More detail is needed please as 'within up to 2000mm deep' is not as clear a description as I would want
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Rank: Forum user
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Bob the confined space is upto 2000mm deep x 2500mm diameter, the areas in question can and do vary depending on the completions, but never over these sizes.
The reason for the generic RA is that the works, teams and environments will not change so compiling a generic RA to cover the works would hopefully enhance our operations.
Is this a case where you could compile this type of documentation and enhance it with a documented specific site inspection form before commencing works.
Chris
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Rank: Forum user 
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I'm still not entirely clear about the question but I'll weigh in anyway!
You seem to have a concern about the overhead, in terms of time, regarding the setting up and taking down of a winch. You make mention of a ladder as an alternative.
In terms of normal access and egress into the confined space I see no issue with utilising a ladder however you should be aware that you need to have provision to enact a rescue of a casualty without endangering another person. Generally that contingency is accommodated by equipping the entrant (to the confined space) with a rescue harness that is permanently attached to a man-riding winch. If they become incapacitated then the top person reels them in.
From what you describe and how I interpret the set-up you don't really seem to have any real alternative to using a winch/tripod type set-up for rescue purposes.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I suggest the the controls depend on the type of work being done in the wellhead pit. If you do an initial gas test from above (easy to sample 2m down using an extension hose I believe) and the oxygen level is normal and no flammables, and then the tasks you are doing cannot result in a leak, then it's not obvious to me that there is any risk of collapse due to the work.
On the other hand, if the tasks could result in any type of leak, then maybe BA is required, as the small space with minimal natural ventilation could fill quickly? (you could do some calculations and define the max. leak rate that would be readily detected by a personal flammable gas detector and still allow plenty of time to escape up the access ladder).
There is of course still a very small risk of the individual collapsing within the wellhead from non-work causes, or by hitting himself on the head with the hand tools. But going out completely with no warning seems pretty unlikely. So, if that person wore a harness and rope, they could be assisted back up the ladder by the person above - though pulling their 'dead weight' would not be possible.
I'm not suggesting there's a simple answer - merely that insisting on a rescue winch without further discussion among all those involved is a way to get OSH a bad image. Whereas, if they consider all the combinations of hazard/risk and suitable rescue controls for each then the optimum controls may become clearer?
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Rank: Forum user
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imwaldra wrote:I'm not suggesting there's a simple answer - merely that insisting on a rescue winch without further discussion among all those involved is a way to get OSH a bad image. Whereas, if they consider all the combinations of hazard/risk and suitable rescue controls for each then the optimum controls may become clearer? Generally good advice, I'd say, however, the Confined Spaces Regs are quite clear about having a rescue plan that will allow a casualty to be evacuated without exposing a would be rescuer to added danger. Here's the relevant clause - Emergency arrangements 5.—(1) Without prejudice to regulation 4 of these Regulations, no person at work shall enter or carry out work in a confined space unless there have been prepared in respect of that confined space suitable and sufficient arrangements for the rescue of persons in the event of an emergency, whether or not arising out of a specified risk. (2) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1) above, the arrangements referred to in that paragraph shall not be suitable and sufficient unless— (a)they reduce, so far as is reasonably practicable, the risks to the health and safety of any person required to put the arrangements for rescue into operation; and (b)they require, where the need for resuscitation of any person is a likely consequence of a relevant specified risk, the provision and maintenance of such equipment as is necessary to enable resuscitation procedures to be carried out. (3) Whenever there arises any circumstance to which the arrangements referred to in paragraph (1) above relate, those arrangements, or the relevant part or parts of those arrangements, shall immediately be put into operation. The Regs don't say "how" but generally this aspect is managed through the use of harness and rescue winch. Again, based on the limited information known, I don't see any way of avoiding the use of a recovery system for anyone who has to enter the confined space. I wouldn't want to be the person trying to justify a decision to eschew the use of a rescue winch because I'd calculated that the risk of needing one was vanishingly small. If it is a confined space then means of rescue must be provided - it's the law.
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Rank: Forum user
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Auchie,
Like others I am will to share my knowledeg but I am at a loss to what it is you are after.
You quote" we are conducting 2 generic RA to cover concrete formed and corrugated metal sheetings within" by this do I understand you are conducting a RA on concrete and metal sheeting installed in a confined space ?? Or do you have work on the xmas tree, BOP, well head in general??
Issues are:
1. the RA and how to assess the hazards and risks ?
2. confined space entry how to control the safety aspects?
3. Access to the confined space via winch or ladder?
4. emergency response using either of these means of access
5. Rigging time seems to be an issue for you.
I am sorry for being so dim this early in the morning.
Wizard
Your workers have BA donned? As they wont be carrying them with them into the space ....will they??
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Rank: Forum user
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should read "willing to share my knowledge" fingers quicker than my half brain .......
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Hi, just to throw in my twopenny worth - are your measurements correct as I convert then to 2 metre deep and 2.5 metre diameter?
This is rather a large area for a confined space unless access is the main issue? (have I missed that somewhere along the way?)
You talk about a generic risk assessment - that's all right as long as it will be made "specific to the works" once the work starts.
Further there is no mention of the method statement (safe system of work) that must surely be written prior to sending your workers into the confined space?
Your mention of oil and gas would suggest your tools must be the non spark producing type and you need fire precautions at the surface in case the worst case scenario does occur.
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