They don't HAVE to have a written policy of risk assessments, but they can still document them if they wish (or perhaps if they wish to work for you?). Obviously you don't want to go overboard with requiring documents, but as the client you are able to ask for all OSH information that is reasonable - provided such a clause is included in your standard contract!

I was just Martin for a couple of years and then last week IOSH seemed to have a problem with it and they changed it to Martin#1

No, I'm Spartacus!

(Sorry, couldn't resist - it's Friday and only an hour or so left until the weekend).

Personally, I always preferred Cinzano!

Triblim,

If by JM you mean JohnW (me) then I have to disagree with your suggestion that I'm offering misleading advice.

I agree when you say "Reg 3 & the ACoP for the Management Regs, there is no explicit requirement to document other than with 5 or more employees" but I will read that as referring to their own place of work. If the two-man team are employed as contractors, and their actions may put many other people at risk then surely there is a requirement for a written document to make those other persons properly aware?

Are we dealing with construction work? That was my assumption there and why I also said H&S policy and COSHH were necessary, to comply with CDM.

JohnW

Triblim,

I am aware of relevant ACOPs, HSGs etc. The advice I am posting, re contractors who may affect the safety of others, is what I think is appropriate for the circumstances.

I thought I made that clear to you in the previous psotings.

Do you teach, or do you DO ?

;o)


JohnW

For the teachers among us I do realise I forgot to spell check ,some things are not that important.

John
I to am guilty of the same charge, I often assist the smaller contractor to comply I believe there are many ways to skin a cat and it is very beneficial to see the small contractors adapting and conforming (with a little assistance of myself ) I believe that in the real world that is sometimes what we have to do.
Oh and yippee I remembered to spelll check, I do hope that hasn't spoilt the replies of some of our more smug colleagues.

I have to agree with Betta and JohnW on this one. After all there is still a requirement to risk assess if you employ under 5 employees and I always point ask how something can be proven if it's not written down. Best practice vs legislative requirement.

We have a number of smaller contractors who have historically worked for our organisation and as such they either work alongside the project manager to come up with a risk assessment and method statement in our format they are happy to agree to (and sign to say it is read and understood) or have actually adopted our format (with their logo etc on). Similarly with COSHH assessments, if we know what they are using and how they are using it we can assist or guide them with the assessments.

As it stands a few of our clients require sight of risk assessment and method statement to provide access to secure areas (a live datahall for example) and would not accept "well sorry but these people don't need to because they are under the threshold". Their own procedures for business continuity as well as protection of their own staff require it and it's usually a requirement of any contract with them.

The work has to be assessed but it can be done in co-operation and collaboration especially with small companies who are usually contracted to carry out either specialist works or very focused works. Simply because they have not written it down does NOT mean they are incompetent or unsafe. They don't need to write it down so they haven't.

I have seen so much paper produced by small companies, at the demand of larger clients or because they think they will not get work without it. It often serves little purpose other than to provide evidence for future legal actions.

In my time on "active" duty, it was customary that such companies would be required to co-operate with our systems and we would help them to produce what we required. They provide the content, we provide the systems.

Your pre-qualification process can be tailored to such requirements.
p48

I both teach (PTLLS qualified) NEBOSH Cert/Diploma etc. and having worked for over 18 years in H&S - starting with HSE Inspector now back to consulting (with a post grad diploma from bck in 94 if you are going to get picky). I feel that you need to look at what advice you are offering when you post it as "you must do etc". So I do both with added extras for no additional cost.

Climb back into your pram, pick up up your toys and regather. Perhaps then you will realise that you have misinterpreted the legislation and offered innappropriate / incorrect advice.

Look at the rest of the post to see that they concur with my train of thought not your misguided interpretation of law. It is something we all do when we start in this world. ;o) to quote you.

Congratulations. That MUST be the most condescending and patronising post i've read on here in my 18 months with IOSH. Your PTLLS teacher MUST be so proud of your 'pram & toys' put down. Wouldn't it have been possible to suggest by PM that his advice, although good practice, might not reflect current law?
Just a thought as we're all here to help each other are we not?

Oh dear, what an unfortunate thread. Not taking sides but, this forum is designed to assist colleagues and it is very dangerous to be too assertive, we all make mistakes...