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MaxPayne  
#1 Posted : 29 July 2011 08:58:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Published on the HSE website today:

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has released provisional data for the year April 2010 to March 2011, which shows the number of workers killed was 50, an increase on the previous year, when 41 died.

Question - given the decline in construction activities and the apparent rise in the number of fatalities, what is the view of the community on this subject? Could it be a case of H&S being cut back on?
Guitarman1  
#2 Posted : 29 July 2011 09:04:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Guitarman1

I think its a culture thing, however, we would all need more information to be able to give a positive answer, such as where did these deaths take place?
Large sites
Small sites
Inner city
Rural
Simply saying 51 people died doesn't really mean much, apart from the fact there are a whole heap of friends and family members mourning a good person.
TSC  
#3 Posted : 29 July 2011 09:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
TSC

Agree with Guitarman,

Need key facts before making judgements it may be H&S cut back on; or could be workers not as pro acitve as they once where raising concerns through fear for jobs; or peoples perception of risk and good health and safety has changed after seeing the medias view of HSE.

It could prove when the statistics come out next year to be a one off increase that goes back to a figure expected (fingers crossed it doesn't increase again).

Goes back to the reason to need facts and further information as everything else is purely theory.

johnmurray  
#4 Posted : 29 July 2011 10:46:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

I doubt that there will be any change from past events.
The construction intelligence reports from HSE give the stats, so extrapolation should not be hard.

www.hse.gov.uk/construction/pdf/conintreport.pdf
Martin#1  
#5 Posted : 29 July 2011 11:15:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin#1

MaxPayne wrote:
Published on the HSE website today:

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has released provisional data for the year April 2010 to March 2011, which shows the number of workers killed was 50, an increase on the previous year, when 41 died.

Question - given the decline in construction activities and the apparent rise in the number of fatalities, what is the view of the community on this subject? Could it be a case of H&S being cut back on?


Do you have a link to this?

Cheers

Martin
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#6 Posted : 29 July 2011 11:25:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Hang on. Take care with the interpretation of these data and don't be tempted to speculate - or was it just daydreaming? - about various explanations such as economics and commercial downturns in the construction sector etc.

I recently dealt with the same issue in the waste & recycling sector - it will be published in August - to address a rise in fatalities compared to the previous year. Of course, the trade press, IWM and even HSE were shouting about the sector H&S standards were deteriorating, but the previous year had an exceptionally low number of fatalities so the rise and fall was little more than chance.

Simple trend analysis, and more detailed statistical analysis, confirmed a 5-year downward trend. Concerns about the individual number of fatalities this year was no more appropriate than are self-appointed pats on the back when next year it falls again.
johnmurray  
#7 Posted : 29 July 2011 12:26:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"Construction - 'development and sale of real estate' has moved to this sector from 'services'. The numbers employed are relatively small compared to both sectors, and no fatalities recorded in the past six years. An effect of the change is a slight decrease in the average worker fatality rate for the period 05/06 to 09/10, from 3.0 per 100,000 under SIC 2003 to 2.8 under SIC 2007"

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/fatalinjuries.htm

peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 29 July 2011 13:51:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Max

Too many of course, but the numbers are too small to do year on year statistical analysis.

it is unfortunate that all the commentary tends to use the fatals as the headline stats rather than looking at lower severity accidents where statistically significant trends can be identified in much shorter timeframe.
MaxPayne  
#9 Posted : 29 July 2011 14:54:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

quote=peter gotch]Max

Too many of course, but the numbers are too small to do year on year statistical analysis.

it is unfortunate that all the commentary tends to use the fatals as the headline stats rather than looking at lower severity accidents where statistically significant trends can be identified in much shorter timeframe.


I suppose on reflection, the question is a wider one but just highlighted by the article quoting a slight increase in fatalities. To rephrase then, does the community feel or have evidence of a reduction in H&S management which could be resultant in increased incidents across all sectors. Forget the media bashing of the profession, but is the economic situation actually having a negative impact on workplace H&S?
boblewis  
#10 Posted : 29 July 2011 23:20:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

As I have said elsewhere I believe the drop was a glitch and that we are returning to the figures that reflect the way the sector is managed and trained wrt H&S. The construction culture is still one of "I can do anything" - the impossible just takes longer to complete. Management and operatives are constantly seekin g the "easiest" answer at least from their perspective and the game is to do it without the Safety Man spotting it before its done.

Culture, Culture, Culture and until we change it to what has been termed as interdependency then it will continue as it is. A much wiser man than I, Freire - a Brazilian Educator, described a number of methods of training with the "conscientised" individual able to take information and process it to obtain an answer - below this we have those who are taught by rote and have to be told what to do. These latter cannot assess answers to problems. This is the construction sector writ large. We need this to change so that we can, as practitioners have confidence that solutions will account for the H&S needs without constant input from ourselves.

Whenever we do training does our assessment require use of the information or simply a regurgitation of facts? Most courses stick with information remembrance not use of that information - and how often is the student re-assessed post training? Very rarely in my experience as this actually means having systems in place to manage the competence of all levels of personnel.

Bob
Phil Grace  
#11 Posted : 01 August 2011 10:56:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Entirely agrre with previosu posters that:

a) Numbers of fatalities are generally too small to be regarded with any confidence
b) Year on year fluctuations are often meaningless
c) It is trends over time - 5 years plus - that provide only meaningful indicator

I always consider the "fortuity" aspect. The falling brick can land on one's toe causing bruising/minor fracture. It could land on your shoulder causing serious injuries, ending one's career and resulting in a major compensation claim (you can tell I work for an EL insurer..!) Or it could land on one's head resulting in death.

The difference in outcome is just a fraction of a second in terms of time, a few centimetres in terms of distance. Thus stats that speak of 50 or so fatalities have to be treated with caution - the numbers could have been higher or lower not do to any risk management action but simply the speed at which someone was walking.

Phil
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