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Zanshin67  
#1 Posted : 10 August 2011 14:35:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Zanshin67

Hi all

not sure quite how to respond to this.

other than the obvious formal training for work equipment Stihl saws, Chainsaws etc our foremen have been asked to carry out and record familiarisation training on general hand tools, and basic power tools drills etc.

without going over the top the question has been raised concerning individual liability if something were to go wrong.

I would steer towards monitoring and supervision following training and also what ever is set at a standard then surely should then be reflected by HR in job descriptions and subsequent roles and responsibilities

what are your thoughts?

Cheers

D
stevie40  
#2 Posted : 10 August 2011 15:36:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

Presumably you've had an objection from the foremen who are worried they may be held to blame if someone is subsequently injured and the training was felt to be deficient.

To some extent that will depend on your current safety culture. Do you partake in witch hunts or try to establish the truth without a blame culture?

Foremen are expected to provide supervision, information and instruction to workers. They have also in the past problably provided training without realising it - imparting pearls of wisdom to new staff members etc.

You are simply formalising what they already do.

To give them some reassurance, as part of the training record can you devise a checklist to ensure all the critical points have been covered? Since you are covering hand tools and basic power tools, something fairly generic along the lines of :-

Have you explained how to :-
- Safely hold the tool.
- Safely change bits, blades, etc.
- Safely apply to the workpiece.
- The importance of clamping the workpiece.
- Ensuring guards, where fitted are working correctly.
- Ensure they have selected the correct tool for the job.
- How to spot defects that affect the safety of the tool.

I suspect you may want to group tool types into their various families so cutting, drilling, surface finishing, impact etc rather than having to repeat the same thing for say "hammer, mallet, bolster etc" under impact tools.
Kate  
#3 Posted : 10 August 2011 15:37:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

What question has been raised exactly and where does "disclaimer" come in?
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 10 August 2011 17:11:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

HSE would quite simply state that there is no legal requirement to record this "training" - so why bother?
Canopener  
#5 Posted : 10 August 2011 19:16:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I am sort of with Kate on this.

But lets try and have a go. I suspect that what you were really asking is, could the foreman, as the trainer be liable if someone that he trains is subsequently injured and there is either a criminal nvestigation, or again I suspect what you're really asking is, if there is a claim for peronal injury or damege.

Liability is established on the individual facts of the case and is either accepted (criminal = guilty plea) or 'found' (criminal = found guilty).

I think that is (highly?) unlikely that the trainer is going to found to be personally liable for a civil claim for damages as this will almost always be the emplopyer whop is held vicariously liable.

IT is possibel I suppose for the trainer to be held criminally liable, but in reality, I suggest that this is again a pretty unlikely scenario unless the trainer was in some way grossly negligent in the training that he gave.

Summary - I suggest that the trainer has little to fear and let;'s face it OJT has been going on for generations.

Discalimer - like Kate, I am not quite sure where this fits in, and as has been discussed on here many times, inclusing fairlyt recently, you can't generally disclaim criminal acts and the remainder of disclaimers are often largely inneffective.
Canopener  
#6 Posted : 10 August 2011 19:19:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Sorry I hit the post button before reading my post and also forgot the spell check - which has been playing up lately and not picking up duff words and sometimes picking up good words.

I am sort of with Kate on this.

But lets try and have a go. I suspect that what you were really asking is, could the foreman, as the trainer be liable if someone that he trains is subsequently injured and there is either a criminal investigation, or again I suspect what you're really asking is, if there is a claim for personal injury or damage.

Liability is established on the individual facts of the case and is either accepted (criminal = guilty plea) or 'found' (criminal = found guilty).

I think that is (highly?) unlikely that the trainer is going to be found to be personally liable for a civil claim for damages as this will almost always be the employer who is held vicariously liable.

It is possible I suppose for the trainer to be held criminally liable, but in reality, I suggest that this is again a pretty unlikely scenario unless the trainer was in some way grossly negligent in the training that he gave.

Summary - I suggest that the trainer has little to fear and let's face it OJT has been going on for generations.

Disclaimer - like Kate, I am not quite sure where this fits in, and as has been discussed on here many times, including fairly recently, you can't generally disclaim criminal acts and the remainder of disclaimers are often largely ineffective.
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2011 10:12:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

If, by disclaimer you mean for those providing training - forget it. In this type of scenario a disclaimer is not worth the paper it is written on. As has been said before on this forum a zillion times, you cannot disclaim away a legal requirement or duty.

On the job training/refresher provided by a competent person is eminently sensible and if low risk ie hand tools, then the trainer would not need a degree in rocket science. Crack on.
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