Hello All,

As a newbie to the forum, I’m hoping colleagues on here will be kind and generous enough to share their wealth of experience…….my new employer is looking to implement a permit to work system for their owned and managed multi site residential, office and commercial units, for which contractors (partnering and other), not directly employed staff, will carry out planned and reactive works, which could include works such as, welding; work at height; work that requires electrical or mechanical isolation etc. A high number of the premises do not have a regular member of staff on site, but are used/ or inhabited by third parties.

I’m familiar with HSG 250 (although my employer doesn’t operate in the petroleum, chemical or related industries) which states that a ptw is a local procedure managed by an employer/premises owner etc. to control workers who may need access to a hazardous position i.e. on a roof, in a confined space etc. … to ensure that authorised and competent people have thought about foreseeable risks and that such risks are avoided by using suitable precautions...And that the employer, site occupier or installation duty holder (i.e. the installation owner or operator) has overall responsibility for ensuring proper permit-to-work systems are developed and followed (to enable co-ordination and control and for monitoring).

My questions are:
What experience and advice do colleagues have on implementing ptw systems in occupied multi site, un-manned locations, in particular for reactive work?
My employer has also asked whether its contractors could be requested to undertake the issuing and management of ptw’s for their staff working on our sites (subject to satisfactory contractor induction arrangements; the communication of local site specific safety rules and hazards; and risk assessments being undertaken)?

Your helpful replies on these would be gratefully received!

Hi Rosie,

The PTW system can be useful element of a safe system of work... or on the other hand it can be just a piece of paper for people to fill out now and again depending on how people really use the system.

Part of the PTW system is for someone with authority to control and agree how someone is going to carry out work... hence authorising signature.

Is it your intention to allow contractors to issue and authorise as well as the management of them? A cautionary note that this would I feel not mitigate liability should things go wrong so control is still required!

As bob says you would benefit from discussing in more depth.

Hi Rosie.
PTWs must always be used for the high risk activities eg: electrical isolation, steam shut down, hot work, confined space. Only authorised persons should complete PTWs, and should be given written authorisation to do so. Encourage the use of RAs for as many activities as possible.
If you have a competent M&E service provider they would be best placed to complete PTWs. Sadly I have investigated far to many fatalities as the result of a poorly completed PTW, so make sure that whoever is the authorised person has the correct competencies, and that they are fully conversant with the M&E system being worked on.

PTWs have become pieces of confetti over the past 20 years or so, and sadly are now being used for the most trivial of work activities where a decent RA would suffice. I have many years experience of PTWs and am willing to assist further if you wish.

Rosie,

Further to Bob's post, in case you did not know the next SE branch meeting is Sept 13 at the Kent Showground - details can be found on this website (News & Events I think).

There are many more posts on PTW, a search may get you more answers.