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Thomo  
#1 Posted : 15 October 2011 21:29:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Thomo

Hi everyone.
Can anyone tell me if there is any written info on the location of Safety Data Sheets and who is responsible to maintain them?
I think they should be kept in the stores where the item is located and controlled by the store man who orders and receives the store, individuals read and sign the to say they have read the work plan/ risk assessment and Safety Data sheet before items is removed from the store.

Many Thanks
Robinson22450  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2011 19:08:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Robinson22450

Hi Thomo
Not aware of any specific guidance but in my opinion the SDS should be located where the substances are being used. All colleagues should be aware of the contents if applicable to their role (through the COSHH assessments) and know where to find these documents i.e for first aid, spillages. You could make the storeman responsible to maintain the data sheets as part of their role (through their line manager). The storeman sounds the most appropriate person. Some awareness on the importance of SDS would be benefit.
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2011 23:04:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The SDS are only useful to those who write the COSHH assessments. I can't believe anyone else ever bothers to read them as most are like watching paint dry and would make little sense to those without the knowledge to understand them. They should be kept either by the person who procures products or the stores foreman if they are not same person.
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 17 October 2011 00:08:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

As others allude, and with the widespread on-line availability of MSDS, there's really little or no reason to keep them locally unless your concern is with onward supply.
Kate  
#5 Posted : 17 October 2011 08:35:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Some msds are 20+ pages long now, and all of them contain reams of abstruse technical and regulatory information - for most people, reading them isn't helpful at all. They also cause confusion and conflict because the supplier invariably gives advice to the effect "wear full PPE including space suit" to cover themselves whereas your COSHH assessment, based on the task as well as the substance, may well say something else.

What people need is clear information about the hazards of the materials and the precautions to take when using them. Sometimes looking at the label will be enough, sometimes a written procedure or simple information sheet is needed.

If a written risk assessment is being provided then this should contain all the relevant information extracted from the msds anyway.

It doesn't matter who looks after them or where they are kept, whatever is most practical in your organisation, so long as they are available on the rare occasions when they are needed: COSHH assessment; sending someone to hospital after an exposure; someone else like the fire service or a client or contractor asking for them.
Terry556  
#6 Posted : 17 October 2011 08:40:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Terry556

I keep the MSDS sheets in my Office, and a copy is kept in the first aid room, who ever uses the chemichals should read the MSDS sheet, and be trained in the use, and the exposure limits. You must keep copies to be complient
Kate  
#7 Posted : 17 October 2011 08:41:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Do you seriously believe that the users actually do read the msds? All of it? "Sheet" is a misnomer for these lengthy documents.
Kate  
#8 Posted : 17 October 2011 08:43:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

"You must keep copies to be compliant" - compliant with what exactly?
chris.packham  
#9 Posted : 17 October 2011 10:00:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Compliant with CHIP!
Safety data sheets are just one of the sources of data for the risk assessment to meet the requirements of the Management of Health and Safety at Work and COSHH regulations. Since they only refer to what is being supplied - and then only contain limited data - which can be very different from what is being used, they are rarely relevant for the end user. The end user should have access to the risk assessment for the individual task. This should explain the hazards of the chemicals as they are being used and what actions they should take to ensure their safety.

"... only contain limited data...". As an example I can quote you a number of chemicals that are well known to dermatologists as skin sensitisers but that have not been classified as R43 and will therefore not appear as such on a safety data sheet. And wet work is still the most common cause of occupational contact dermatitis.

Chris
Phil Hill  
#10 Posted : 17 October 2011 10:15:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Phil Hill

Kate, this link should help you http://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/basics/datasheets.htm and at my place of work the H&S Officer (management level) is responsible for ALL the COSHH data sheets which are Supplied and Shared BEFORE any Substance is used (cleared by the H&S Reps union-worker level) They highlight the areas of concern and cover the necessary points with the relevent personelle be-it first aiders or just those who are to use it. ALL Masters of data sheets are with the officer and the relevant sheets for a given area are in a clearly labeled bright yellow folder at arranged workstations. but that is what we arranged with our employer which may not be suitable to other work places. all the best PH
chris.packham  
#11 Posted : 17 October 2011 12:16:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

In the context of advice from the HSE, perhaps these two extracts from their Topic Inspection Pack, Work Related Contact Dermatitis, Skin Disease Programme, are relevant:

1.
“HSE’s experience suggests that a large proportion of SDSs do not provide adequate or correct information on hazards and exposure controls.”
2.
“Nevertheless, product suppliers have a legal responsibility under the Health and Safety at Work Act to provide adequate information about any risks to health or safety of the users and about any conditions necessary to ensure that the products can be used safely”

The reference is to section 6-1 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974. which require the supplier to provide information over and above what is provided in the safety data sheet.

It is essential for valid risk assessment for chemicals in a workplace that we recognise that when we use chemicals we frequently change their properties. We may mix, react, contaminate, dilute, heat, oxidise, etc. the original product, such that a completely different set of hazards exist for that particular task. Our risk assessment must be based on the real hazard arising out of the use of the chemical. Merely relying on the safety data sheet (that is provided for CHIP, not COSHH) can lead to an invalid risk assessmemt.

Chris
Thomo  
#12 Posted : 17 October 2011 15:17:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Thomo

Thank you all very much for your replies. It certainly started a good debate. I’m sorry to say I haven’t learnt anything new, maybe a bit more info is required.
I work offshore as a Medic / safety adviser I’m on a semi submersible rig with a foreign (this isnt important but there is a small language barrier) store man who I asked for a list of safety data sheets so that I may check the sickbay has the right ones, his reply was he doesn’t know what safety data sheets he has and I should go write down all the chemicals in his store then google them, I laughed in his face.
Grant1962  
#13 Posted : 18 October 2011 10:48:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grant1962

There seem to be a few people on this forum who could use a big dose of CPD, since the MSDS transferred from CHIP to REACH it became the SDS.

A COSHH assessment is effectively a Risk Assessment of the use of the substance in any particular situation or operation.

The SDS details much more additional information that may be required in the event of an emergency such toxicology, first aid measures & Firefighting measures all of which would not necessarily apppear on a COSHH Assessment.

Therefore the SDS should be located near to the point of use, think of the scenario where somebody inadvertantly swallows a substance, the container labels is either disfigured or worn away - how are the medical team to treat that person correctly without the information contained on the SDS.

Thats my pennies worth - so I have now thown the social hand grenade
MB1  
#14 Posted : 18 October 2011 11:04:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

Thomo,

I was in the same predicament as you some many moons ago when involved in offshore drilling down the west African coast!

Time served you may already be aware of the usual substances generally used on board and will need to use this to your advantage. Many have details of the manufacturer on them (usually US based) with good sources of web based access.

Identify known caustic based substances, synthetic oils etc and you should be able to determine the human hazards and precautions to take.

When 3rd parties bring substances on to use, then liaise with them to identify what could be hazardous and in what circumstance... As you know I'm sure being a detective is part of the role in these circumstances!
chris.packham  
#15 Posted : 18 October 2011 11:18:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

"A COSHH assessment is effectively a Risk Assessment of the use of the substance in any particular situation or operation."

I completely agree. Where I differ is that when we use the substance, frequently a mixture, we may well change its properties. As a result the hazard in use may be very different to that stated on the safety data sheet. Thus the safety data sheet may well not give us the relevant information, either for the risk assessment or for the action needed in an emergency.

As a very simple example, the oil extracted from the peel of citrus fruits, often used as a degreaser, is a defatting agent and thus a skin irritant. It is not classified as a sensitiser (R43/H317), nor will this be indicated on the safety data sheet. However, if exposed to the atmosphere for any length of time oxidisation will result in the presence in the oil of potent sensitisers.

I also know of at least one case where large quantities of rags, soaked in this oil, were dumped in a skip. The oxidisation resulted in a fire within the skip. Yet the oil is not, itself, classified as flammable!

Moreover, several studies have shown that many safety data sheets are inaccurate, so treat them with caution.

Chris
Thomo  
#16 Posted : 18 October 2011 13:55:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Thomo

Grant and Chris:- Thanks for that I am the medic, please read post 12. I can’t find any legislation that says a SDS should be held and maintained by the store man in the store.
MB1:- Cheers for that. I’m going to fire this one straight to the OIM.
MB1  
#17 Posted : 18 October 2011 14:04:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

Thomo,

If you are working in the UK then the storeman has to comply with carriage of dangerous goods legislation etc

If you are working abroad, especially outwith the continental shelf then you may find it hard to locate legislation to support you.

Agreed you should approach the OIM
chris.packham  
#18 Posted : 18 October 2011 16:30:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Thomo

Point taken. You have my sympathy with regard to the storeman, who should, of course, have a complete set of safety data sheets for what he has in his store. He should also be checking regularly to ensure that these are up to date.

My concern is that the safety data sheet is often seen as a definitive document on the chemical hazard, whereas what is really needed is data on the actual chemical(s) present during the execution of a specific task. I readily admit that I don't know a simple way of determining this. So much depends upon the individual task and how the chemicals are used for that task.

We are working with a Eurotoxicologist to see if we can develop a technique for assessing the real chemical hazard, but this is proving difficult.

Chris


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