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markburrows  
#1 Posted : 25 October 2011 11:46:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
markburrows

Good Morning,
After a lot of work and effort, we currently have a very good proactive safety committee who take part in all aspects of safety and are developing very nicely. Until recently one of my members was the union safety rep also, however due to conflicts with the other union reps (pay talks), he resigned his union safety position and remained on the committee as a safety rep. ( no problem as he is a very positive membe
The union in our workplace are losing members hand over fist for various reasons and the reps have become "disruptive" and obstructive in various areas. One has voiced a desire to "get the union into the safety committee".
There is a general concern that their contribution will be negative and disruptive as with all the other inputs they have.
I have no problems at all with union reps at all but am concerned about the motives of these individuals based on their current performance in the workplace generally and their dwindling support from the workforce ( they have lost 50%) of their memebers in the last few months.

Can anyone advise / give their thoughts or experiences ?
firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 25 October 2011 12:16:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

An employee representative on the safety committee is elected by the employees.

There has to be only one employee representative on the committee, not necessarily a trade union rep and an employee rep.

If more than one safety rep they are entitled to a meeting with management.

You could start off with an election but may see some intervention by the trade union.

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 25 October 2011 13:41:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Where there is a recognised union, you must apply the Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977 and work with the union safety reps. If at least two TUS health and safety representatives request in writing that a safety committee be formed within the workplace, the employer must establish such a committee within three months of the request. Basically the committee is a beast by and for the union safety reps. But the requirement is to consult with and work with the reps. If they are being obstructive, then you can consult them and then ignore them!
If the union has lost enough members then you can derecognise the union and just rely on reps elected by the employees under the Consulting where the Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996.
I am not sure how you recognise a union but there must be mechanism for it and your HR people should know.
DP  
#4 Posted : 25 October 2011 13:48:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Good morning - most of us have come across similar in the past - my advice would be, and this is based on your info provided.

Embrace their contribution - go over in detail all the proactive improvements you as a committee have made. Discuss how things as collective can move forward - if the motives are disruption, then anything less than welcoming them on board is providing them with what they want.

Discuss the terms of reference for the committee - to drive forward safety as a collective.

Have you got a clear policy on the committees - if not set one out together - they can' put in that they want to be awkward can they? Agree content and issue?

DP
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 25 October 2011 15:15:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

A Kurdziel wrote:
Where there is a recognised union, you must apply the Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977 and work with the union safety reps. If at least two TUS health and safety representatives request in writing that a safety committee be formed within the workplace, the employer must establish such a committee within three months of the request. Basically the committee is a beast by and for the union safety reps. But the requirement is to consult with and work with the reps. If they are being obstructive, then you can consult them and then ignore them!
If the union has lost enough members then you can derecognise the union and just rely on reps elected by the employees under the Consulting where the Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996.
I am not sure how you recognise a union but there must be mechanism for it and your HR people should know.


There may be non trade union members who need representation at committees, they do have the right to be represented by a non trade union person.
firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 25 October 2011 15:16:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Basically the committee is a beast by and for the union safety reps.

Disagree - the committee is for all employees - but I know where you are coming from - been there and got loads of T shirts.
pete48  
#7 Posted : 26 October 2011 11:22:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

You have to manage the challenge. There is some simple guidance on meeting challenging periods for safety committees in HSG263 (para 156-158) but basically it is no different from managing such matters anywhere in the business. It would clearly not be helpful to the H&S of employees and others if the appointed union representatives are positively disruptive and their Union would agree wholeheartedly I am sure. It must also be said that such difficulties can arise equally from a disinterested management.
One key thing to remember is that it is not necessary to obtain agreement in this process although that is always the better outcome. It is primarily about talk, listen, seek and share views, discuss in good time and consider what employees say before YOU make the decision. You being the company management.
What is important is that the workplace conflict that you describe must not be allowed to be played out in the safety committee. If there are disagreements about H&S matters that the safety committee cannot resolve then they should simply be referred to the proper dispute channels and not allowed to disrupt or clog up the work of that committee. The committee has no role in dispute resolution whether for union appointed reps or employee reps.
However, in my experience these fears of conflict arising are often never realised. Respecting each other’s opinions and motives usually result in a positive outcome.

p.s. HSG 263 contains a good flow chart at para 14 and further notes at para 34-36 with regard to how the 1977 and 1996 Regs apply to employee consultation. I always use them to remind myself of the interaction between the two sets of Regs.

P48
Betta Spenden  
#8 Posted : 26 October 2011 21:14:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

A Kurdziel wrote:
Where there is a recognised union, you must apply the Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977


??????????????
Betta Spenden  
#9 Posted : 26 October 2011 21:16:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

Just because there is a recognised union there, it does not always automatically mean the the 77 Regs apply.
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 28 October 2011 11:12:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As far as being a beast of the TUS, the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 Section 2(4-7) makes it clear that:
Sub section (4) recognised trades unions will be able to appoint their own safety reps according to regs (1977 regs)
(6) Says that employers must consult with these reps
(7) says that “if requested to do so by the safety representatives mentioned in (4) above, to establish, in accordance with regulations made by the Secretary of State, a safety committee having the function of keeping under review the measures taken to ensure the health and safety at work of his employees and such other functions as may be prescribed.”

Of course a safety committee is a good thing and should not just be run for the benefit of the TUS reps but as far as the law in concerned then they are the drivers.
The Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996 which allow for the election of non-TUS safety reps do not mention H&S committees as such, just consultation between the employer and the non Union reps ( which of course might take the form of a committee!)
lwthesm  
#11 Posted : 28 October 2011 12:33:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lwthesm

We have union and non union reps on our committee. We also have one union safety rep who doesn't sit on the committee. All our reps (union and non) who sit on the committee are elected by their workforce, it is slightly complicated because we have 4 recognised unions as well as many staff who are not in any union.
Regarding consultation with the rep who has been appointed by the union who doesn't sit on the committee he gets minutes from the meetings (they are freely available to everyone anyway on the noticeboards and the internal intranet) and if he wants to contribute it is in writing and presented (usually by me) at the next meeting. For us this works well as everyone has a voice and all the work the committee does is open to everyone.
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