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SHE-Andy  
#1 Posted : 09 November 2011 11:08:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SHE-Andy

Probably been asked a hundred times but humour me... Working time regulations 1998 We have foreign contractors on site who come over for a 4 - 6 week period, working 10 hours a day 7 days a week. They have signed the opt out agreement but we are worried that they may be burning themselves out and if they were to have an accident then the time worked could be identified as a contributing factor. They get an hour dinner break, with additional comfort breaks as required. There is a clear 11 hours between shifts but they don't get a 24 hour break at weekends, (they choose not to) My understanding of the regulations is that once an opt out is signed they are free to work these kind of hours? We are thinking about insisting that they take a 24 hour break at least once during the term of contract. Any thoughts?
Ken Slack  
#2 Posted : 09 November 2011 11:29:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

Andy, As they have agreed to exclude the maximum time I would look at assessing the risks and impose any limit that the assessment identifies. Maybe look through some of the many Work fatigue Studies that are available. It may be that the 11 hour minimum rest period could be enough.
bob youel  
#3 Posted : 09 November 2011 16:09:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

The working time 'opt out' does not include opting out of H&S so U are correct to question the point. The 'OO'is only referring to parts of the working time regs so its back to the risk assessment process noting that working 12 hours per day in high risk industries was the norm until recently [and note fishermen; as 12 hours per day over long periods is short time working to them!] and to my knowledge did not significantly contribute to the accident rates nor type of accident in most cases To 'burn out' a young healthy person in most industrial settings today in the UK, noting that heavy industry has gone, takes some doing so the RA should account for health, stamina and similar areas as well as the norm areas Undertake the assessment and go on from there or employ more people at sensible rates of pay, so as all staff can work a sensible day and have a sensible amount of time off!
Canopener  
#4 Posted : 09 November 2011 20:53:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

The WTR are a rather unusual set of regs in that they refer to entitlements which the workers may exercise. It is not always clear to me that an employer has to insist on the entitlement being taken if the worker chooses not to; others may see that differently. They seem at times a bit of a ‘muddle’. The various entitlements i.e. the length of the working week, and weekly rest are on the one hand separate, but on the other hand, inextricably linked. You don’t mention the type of work that they are doing or the ages of the workers. The latter may be particularly relevant IF they are ‘young workers’ as the entitlements are in some cases different and the ability to opt out or for the employer to exercise one or more of the ‘special circumstances’ differs. I may well buck the trend here, but depending on the circumstances, the scenario that you have suggested may be acceptable in the short term i.e. the 4-6 weeks. In a previous life I have worked 12/14 hour shifts, 7 days a week although in fairness I am not sure if it extended to 6 weeks. I also wonder how farm workers get on during the harvest? However, in saying all that, I do think that your proposal of a day off per week seems a reasonable compromise. Remember that the WTR for young workers do differ in certain respects. You might want to read up on the ‘Produce connection’ case as well, you might find it relevant or helpful
Jane Blunt  
#5 Posted : 10 November 2011 07:57:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Take care of what they do out of their working hours - what is their travel time to home? Are they showing signs of excessive tiredness? 11 hours sounds OK. However, at least one employer has been found guilty of an offence due to excessive working time: "There was a fatal accident on the A10 between Cambridge and Ely between a lorry and a van. The lorry, load and van were all seized. Investigation of the timesheet of the van driver revealed he worked excessively long hours (more than 20 hours a day on occasions). It appears he fell asleep on the way home. The prosecution led to a £30k fine on the company and £24k costs – which led to the company verging on bankruptcy."
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 10 November 2011 08:35:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Root cause Please correct me if I am wrong; but I believe that the root cause of many accidents etc. in the UK is the fact that employers do not want to pay fair rates of pay nor admit to creating 'real' jobs hence people who are desperate come from 'wherever' and work in poor conditions inclusive of excessive hours I was witness last year to a wagon driver from Germany off-loading in Gtr Manchester with workers from Bristol who had an accident and was afraid to go home/stop work even though he ended up with a broken arm in a sling! The driver was not German [the load and its wagon was from germany] and the staff from Bristol were not Brits ---- All staff were 3rd world/poor country types and all were working vis various middlemen on day rates e.g they were given 'day' contracts only so were fired at the end of each shift and started again at the beginning of the next shift [if they had played the game the day before!] with no money for sleeping accommodation included in their pay rates Until these employment practices are stopped nothing will change and only a death, in my view, will force most [but not all] employers to inform the HSE etc. The only good point was that all of the people I spoke to had a good understanding of English Just my rant!
walker  
#7 Posted : 10 November 2011 09:00:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Even after you have signed the opt out there are still limits. I can't remember exactly what they are, you will have to read the regs I operate in an area where some work once started, can't be stopped. We talked to HSE and with their approval operate a 12 days on 2 days off. This was the absolute maximum that was allowed. We also have in place a very rigorous RA and observation procedures in place.
walker  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2011 09:04:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

bob youel wrote:
Root cause Please correct me if I am wrong; but I believe that the root cause of many accidents etc. in the UK is the fact that employers do not want to pay fair rates of pay nor admit to creating 'real' jobs hence people who are desperate come from 'wherever' and work in poor conditions inclusive of excessive hours I was witness last year to a wagon driver from Germany off-loading in Gtr Manchester with workers from Bristol who had an accident and was afraid to go home/stop work even though he ended up with a broken arm in a sling! The driver was not German [the load and its wagon was from germany] and the staff from Bristol were not Brits ---- All staff were 3rd world/poor country types and all were working vis various middlemen on day rates e.g they were given 'day' contracts only so were fired at the end of each shift and started again at the beginning of the next shift [if they had played the game the day before!] with no money for sleeping accommodation included in their pay rates Until these employment practices are stopped nothing will change and only a death, in my view, will force most [but not all] employers to inform the HSE etc. The only good point was that all of the people I spoke to had a good understanding of English Just my rant!
Well now that the PM has got old Dave Young back in harness, this is the future for us all.
peter gotch  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2011 13:52:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Andy Here's one I did earlier...... The Health and Safety Executive published guidance “Managing shift work”, HSG256, ISBN 0-7176-6197-0 in 2006. This draws on the findings of various international research reports and makes various recommendations as to shift-working arrangements. Summary of international research There is a substantial body of international research that indicates that long shifts, particularly in excess of 9 hours are associated with adverse impacts on • productivity • error rates • accident rates • worker health and family relationships However, the findings of the research are not wholly consistent. There is some evidence to indicate that accident rates may not increase significantly where extended shifts are associated with a “compressed week” if • Long shifts have worker buy in - with less commute time and more time away from the workplace • The overall length of the week remains at e.g. 40 hours Little of the research is specific to the construction sector. Most is either cross-sectoral, or targeted at safety critical industries. The latter research has enabled guidance e.g. “Managing fatigue in safety critical work”, published by the Office of Rail Regulation (www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/293.pdf), or HSE guidance to the operators of “major hazards” sites “Human Factors Briefing Note No.10 – Fatigue” (www.hse.gov.uk/humanfactors/comah/10fatigue.pdf). HSG256 notes that fatigue, night work and/or shift working have been contributory factors to a number of major incidents including Three Mile Island (1979), Bhopal (1984), Challenger Space Shuttle (1986), Chernobyl (1986), Clapham Junction (1988) and Exxon Valdez (1989). Research findings The most extensive single research project which we have reviewed was that of Hänecke K et al which reviewed more that 1.2 million accidents in Germany, where the workers’ compensation system is such that there is little if any underreporting (in contrast with e.g. the U.K. or U.S.) This was cross-sectoral but found that • A constant accident rate applied for the first 9 hours of work • There was an exponential increase after 9 hours of work, with the rate doubling after 12 hours, and tripling after 16 hours • In addition, for the two later of the three “traditional” shiftwork starting times (e.g. 2pm and 10pm), the relative accident rates increased dramatically beyond the eighth hour My review only identified two studies specific to the construction industry, both in the U.S. In “Overtime and Extended Work Shifts : Recent Findings on Illnesses, Injuries and Health Behaviors” , NIOSH reported the findings of research by Lowery et al. These researchers sampled over 2000 contracts involving some 32000 workers in the development of Denver International Airport. They found that there was a statistically significant increase in non Lost Working Time injuries for those contracts where more than 20% of payroll was associated with overtime (i.e. in excess of 40 hours per week), compared with contracts where up to 20% of payroll was so associated. The relative ratio was 1.57 (95% confidence range 1.13 to 2.17) to 1.0 Dong (1995) analysed data from the more than 12000 men and women in the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth 1979 cohort. The survey identified the proportion of the sample who reported that they had had a work-related injury since the previous interview. These included 550 to 600 respondents who indicated that they worked in construction at the time of various annual surveys from 1979 to 1994 and biannual surveys from 1996. In construction those working more than 8 hours a day were found to have statistically significantly higher injury rates (15.0% versus 10.4%) than those who worked 7 or 8 hours a day. Across all sectors, Dong found a statistically significant exponential trend in injury rates rising from those working 7 or 8 hours a day to those working more than 16 hours a day. He did not find such a trend for construction, but commented that this might reflect the size of sample of construction workers was perhaps too small to determine a statistically significant upwards trend. HSE guidance HSG256 recommends the avoidance of shifts in excess of 8 hours where work is demanding, safety critical or monotonous and/or there are physical or chemical hazards, and the general avoidance of any shifts in excess of 12 hours. This would suggest that HSE are generally not supportive of the long working hours culture that is prevalent in the U.K. construction sector. Key Online References “Shift work and fatigue” (HSE) - www.hse.gov.uk/humanfactors/topics/fatigue.htm “Working time – its impact on safety and health” (ILO) - www.ilo.org/public/engli...dtrav/pdf/wtwo-as-03.pdf “Overtime and Extended Work Shifts: Recent Findings on Illnesses, Injuries and Health Behaviors” (NIOSH) - www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004%2D143/ “Long workhours, work scheduling and work-related injuries among construction workers in the United States” (Center to Protect Workers’ Rights) – Download from www.sjweh.fi/show_abstract.php?abstract_id=915 “Accident risk as a function of hour at work and time of day as determined from accident data and exposure models for the German working population” (Hänecke K et al in Scandinavian Journal of Work and Environment Health) Download abstract from www.sjweh.fi/show_abstract.php?abstract_id=334
colinreeves  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2011 13:55:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

Looking at a group of workers to whom the UK Working Time Regs do not apply, the international convention for seafarers requires that all seafarers have a rest of a minimum of 10 hours, which may be split into two, of which one must be at least 6 hours. There is no time limit, seafarers can work these hours seven days a week for months at a time. I am not saying it is right, but perceptions are different in differing circumstances. One point on the opposite point of view - travel time from bed to work is measured in seconds!!
walker  
#11 Posted : 10 November 2011 15:37:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Peter, I like that! I will keep that safe somewhere and maybe pass off as my own work sometime in the future ;-))
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