Rank: Forum user
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Good Afternoon,
Just a quick question about highly and extremely flammable liquids, as a company we have always housed these products in a flamm / Coshh cabinet and displayed dummy cans for sale. As part of a winter promotion we have started stocking De-icer which is extremely flammable, the supplier is unable / unwilling to supply dummy cans. However I keep getting showered with the same question from shop staff at different depots asking how come the big nationals have can after can of the stuff on general sale stacked to the roof but I am making our staff work within a tight control regime. Also to be fair everytime I have been fire inspected their message has been the same i.e. ensure it is secured and controlled. Is there a loophole I am missing ??
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Rank: Super forum user
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Fosterspanner321 wrote:Good Afternoon,
Just a quick question about highly and extremely flammable liquids, as a company we have always housed these products in a flamm / Coshh cabinet and displayed dummy cans for sale. As part of a winter promotion we have started stocking De-icer which is extremely flammable, the supplier is unable / unwilling to supply dummy cans. However I keep getting showered with the same question from shop staff at different depots asking how come the big nationals have can after can of the stuff on general sale stacked to the roof but I am making our staff work within a tight control regime. Also to be fair everytime I have been fire inspected their message has been the same i.e. ensure it is secured and controlled. Is there a loophole I am missing ??
Can't you just limit quantities on the shop floor to a few cans? Dummy cans is a good idea, but this is clearly not practised by the majority of retailers.
I assume risk is low if the container is undamaged and sources of ignition are limited.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Fosterspanner,
Welcome to my world, you have my heart felt sympathies. There is no end of confusion, misinformation and misunderstanding surrounding this and I'm still not satisfied I've got to the bottom of it myself.
The clearest direction you will get will be from your insurers (never copy the big nationals blindly assuming they must be doing it correctly, they rarely are).
Dummy cans were traditionally used to prevent people stealing product for abuse (glue/propelant sniffing etc) because the law surrounding this is worded slightly differently to the normal age banned sales.
People then began to assume there was some connection with fire safety. If you sell straight from the shelf have you considered only putting out enough for one day's sales? Put it somewhere readily visible (this helps to deter arson and is generally considered a good idea with promotional stock) ;-)
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Rank: Forum user
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Well that is essentially what i have done but i am consious that i have recently been served with an improvement notice by a local brigade because of amongst other things an outer of 12 500ml cans of expanding foam which were outside the cabinet awaiting putting in as they had just arrived from a carrier and the inspector went off it and also checked all my shelves like a bloodhound looking for any others which luckily were all dummies !!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Fosterspanner321 wrote:Well that is essentially what i have done but i am consious that i have recently been served with an improvement notice by a local brigade because of amongst other things an outer of 12 500ml cans of expanding foam which were outside the cabinet awaiting putting in as they had just arrived from a carrier and the inspector went off it and also checked all my shelves like a bloodhound looking for any others which luckily were all dummies !!
WOW!
Sounds like we are in a similar business. Are you sure somebody hadn't done something to upset the FSO? We stock too much expanding foam to even fit in our flam cabinets but we've never had that much grief?
(for those about to comment, we treat the whole warehouse as an area of high fire risk)
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Rank: Forum user
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I think in all honesty he was trying to bump up his tally of enforcement notices as they were due for staff cuts and he was trying to make himself indispensable. But back to the issue I have branches in 6 different brigade areas and there seems no definitive answer to the original question as they all give conflicting advice. What I don't want to do is leave mine or the companies backside flapping in the wind for a prosecution but this is such a grey area I really don't know which way to jump.
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how quickly could you clear the building?
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We have relatively low foot fall and the main people at risk are staff not customers and would certainly be 90 seconds or less.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Fosterspanner321 wrote:We have relatively low foot fall and the main people at risk are staff not customers and would certainly be 90 seconds or less.
Showroom / salesfloor or warehouse with trade counter?
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Rank: Forum user
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Trade counter with salesfloor with offices behind and then flam cabinets are located in large adjacent warehouse with only 2 employees in it. T/C evac 90 secs or less, warehouse evac 120 secs or less.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Doesn't make any sense. Can't see why you'd get an IP for that alone.
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Rank: Super forum user
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back to the de-icer ------is it just the expellent that is flammable or the chemical de-icer as well?
If just the expellent can you stock non aerosol de-icer?
(Don't know the product so have to ask)
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Rank: Super forum user
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ChrisBurns wrote:back to the de-icer ------is it just the expellent that is flammable or the chemical de-icer as well?
If just the expellent can you stock non aerosol de-icer?
(Don't know the product so have to ask)
Fosterspanner,
I doubt you have any more sway with your buying department than I do with mine but Chris's point is a valid one and the non-aerosol de-icer is nearly always a more effective product as well (and doesn't loose pressure 'cause the cans gotten cold in the boot of the car over night).
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Thanks for the replies guys, we didn't get an IP for just the flams he picked my fire risk assessment apart despite all other 5 brigades being happy with it. Yes safety smurf I like you have a purchasing department devoid of brain cells the de-icer which is non aerosol is more expensive and since we wouldn't buy in the volume sales to get a good price to remain price competitive they buy the cheapest s**t they can in order to turn a profit. At no time does H & S ever enter their heads just ££££'s
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Rank: Forum user
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Fosterspanner.
Always treat the Shop area seperately from the warehouse /storage area. Enforcing authorities always get excited about storage.
In the shop, yes think of Halfords, Decorator centres, B&Q, even Boots. Rows of flammables in cans, bottles, & aerosols. Trick here is to have only enough on display for sales purposes of the day or a few days. Keep rest away in storage.
Only a problem when there is Loss of Containment (LOC). Have spill emergency kit & procedures. Control smoking and ignition sources and awareness training for staff on flammables. Then stock it on the shelves. I Asume you have a Fire RA & alarm.
BW Peter
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