Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Guys/Gals
I have the following problem and would like to ask opinions on the matter.
I work for a company in the social housing sector. Our scaffolds are erected to the front and the rear of properties. The scaffolds to the front of the properties can be inspected, this is no problem. The scaffolds to the rear of the properties are often inaccessible, this means it is impossible to inspect them on a seven day interval. The scaffolds may not be used for months on end (I have already suggested that they should be taken down but the wont) and will not be in use during the time in between.
1) Without being able to inspect on a seven day interval, taking into consideration they will not be in use for the time in between, will we:
2) Be in breach of any regualtions, or regulatory requirements?
Is there a possibility that even if we are not breaching regulations/requirements that if a member of the public (i.e. kids) climb these scaffolds we could be prosecuted etc... All access ladders are removed when they are not in use?
Any information surrounding this subject will be much appreciated and usefull.
Thanks in advance.
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Rank: Forum user
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Unless barriers are placed to prevent access, one can access the top using the transoms, ledgers and standards despite ladders are removed.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I can't fathom how there's sufficient access to build, but not to inspect, unless there's a totally enclosed quad and the kit was craned in. There's usually a pend or vennel or something.
Why is there's no access to inspect, when there's obviously access to do the work?
Are you clear on who is the duty holder here? Your timescales suggest Notifiable Projects, which would tend to place the onus on the Principal Contractor.
What do you mean by "our" scaffold?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Removing ladders to the first lift isn't always sufficient - particularly in the circumstance you describe.
In the event of incident then yes, the commissioning Client can be taken to task for failing to set and maintain adequate standard of public protection- particularly so where this is 'common area'.
Use of HERAS close-mesh fence at the base when unattended is a simple option.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I meant to reference HSG 151 - available free download from HSE website.
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Rank: Forum user
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It does seem odd that the scaffold isn't accessible however, the Work at Height requirement for inspection is within the previous seven days prior to use, therefore if they aren't being used for weeks/months there is no need to inspect EVERY 7 days. Just make sure they are inspected prior to use and every 7 days while use is ongoing.
If "they" will not remove the scaffold while it is not being used then make sure access to it is prevented. Look on todays IOSH homepage, "Boy injured on Building Site"
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Rank: Super forum user
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quote=ron hunter]I can't fathom how there's sufficient access to build, but not to inspect, unless there's a totally enclosed quad and the kit was craned in. There's usually a pend or vennel or something.
Why is there's no access to inspect, when there's obviously access to do the work?
Are you clear on who is the duty holder here? Your timescales suggest Notifiable Projects, which would tend to place the onus on the Principal Contractor.
What do you mean by "our" scaffold?
Hi Ron
Just to clarify, social housing is particularly difficult when it comes to access issues. The scaffolds are located to the rear of the properties and are tenanted, so asking if we can have access to the garden every 7 days (this is central London we are talking about) near impossible. Tenants are happy for the scaffold to go up, then there is the initial inspection of the roof (as a for instance), then it may take 2 to 3 months to get the order ok`d by the client before works can go ahead.
DNW has echoed my thoughts, that the 7 days is only applicable while in use but, what has made me very concerned is the "boy being injured on the building site" which I was looking at the other day. With this in mind, and being practical about the whole situation, I feel that recommending the removal of all ladder access as a minimum (which we currently do) would be suffice. I cant really think of any other ways of making the scaffold un accessible, as the main point with the story DNW makes reference to, was the fact that the contractor did not make the necessary efforts to prevent access, or am I missing something here??
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Rank: Forum user
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Would it not be possible to use a MEWP to inspect the roof then erect a scaffold when required?
Somebody somewhere must be paying a fortune for the scaffolding to be left in place for months on end.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Dazzling Puddock wrote:Would it not be possible to use a MEWP to inspect the roof then erect a scaffold when required?
Somebody somewhere must be paying a fortune for the scaffolding to be left in place for months on end.
you made me smile when you said that! I have been saying the same thing all along. I have also suggested that to the rear of the property where MEWPS cannot get access we could use easydec system, so the job could be completed in one day, perhaps 2 days.
I am glad I am not insane!!.....Well actually I might still be insane :-)
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Rank: Super forum user
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So, just to clarify
Does everyone agree that during the priod of time where the scaffolds are not in use they do not require inspection? Or do people think we should still be inspecting these during the period of time in between?
I have checked the regs out and have my own opinion but, as so many times before, would be happy to be wrong if it helps getting the job done right in the end.
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Rank: Forum user
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Is there any possibility and/or appropriate and/ or economical to have a radio controlled small helicopter equipped with small cameras to inspect and then wait 2 / 3 months to start work after client green light?
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Rank: Super forum user
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judex wrote:Is there any possibility and/or appropriate and/ or economical to have a radio controlled small helicopter equipped with small cameras to inspect and then wait 2 / 3 months to start work after client green light?
Yes it's possible although I don't think you'd get any footage that would tell you much other than recognising that it's a roof. You may also struggle to get authority to fly it in such a built up area. You're also likely to end up with a trailer load of grief for flying CCTV in domestic area.
Such devices are avialable from certain electronic gadget retailers that sound like they were in 'Hi-de-Hi' but I wouldn't recommend trying to use one of those outdoors.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Social Housing roof replacement up here in Scotland is very much a "component replacement" issue, with the work planned accordingly and thus scaffold built on a 'just in time' principle.
Building a scaffold to "inspect" a roof seems wholly wasteful to me - inspection can be done from (a) inside the loft, (b) from a distance or (c) from a ladder.
Tenants may not like you accessing their garden, but this will (or should!) be a condition of tenancy.
HSG151 - removing ladders to first lift isn't always enough.
Work at Height Regs: Doesn't this apply?
"12 (3) Every employer shall ensure that work equipment exposed to conditions causing deterioration which is liable to result in dangerous situations is inspected—
(a)at suitable intervals; and
(b)each time that exceptional circumstances which are liable to jeopardise the safety of the work equipment have occurred"
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Rank: Forum user
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This issue is could be looked at referencing various regulations, Reg 12-WAH, Schedule 3-WAH, Reg 6-PUWER, Regs 26 & 27 CDM etc. Perhaps Mr. Loftsedt should have addressed these overlaps to provide more clarity bearing in mind falls from height is responsible for numerous deaths every year.
I can only suggest you highlight the above provisions and put them under the noses of the powers that be. If they are insistent that the scaffold will not be removed then maybe Schedule 3 of the Work at Height Regs could be the way forward, and the most practical:
" While a scaffold is not available for use, including during assembly, dismantling or alteration, it shall be marked with general warning signs in accordance with the Health & Safety (Signs & Signals) Regs and be suitably delineated by physical means preventing access to the danger zone"
I have used this in the broadest possible sense, suggesting that the scaffold is not available for use because it has not been inspected.
Also bear in mind Rons point re deterioration, heavy winds would could cause instability so an inspection would be prudent then even when the scaffold is not being used.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Irrespective of any planned proper use, the persons responsible for the scaffold could be held accountable where an initial act of vandalism or reckless interference results in injury to a third party at some later time.
Those with responsibility may have pause to consider what is "reasonable" on the basis of such foreseeable events in very public areas.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Well you have the risk of kids / drunks etc climbing and then falling on scaffold. That seems to have been covered.
What about the potential for total collapse of the scaffold? Are there any vehicle movements in these areas? Have tenants ever been known to lean items against the scaffold or hang things from them? High winds leading to collapse?
MEWP would certainly seem to be the route to go down if a detailed, close up inspection is needed.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I appreciate the difficulty with rear elevations and access to them in a domestic environment. As far as I'm aware the 7 day inspection applies when the scaffold is in use. Nevertheless I would be inclined to make sure the scaffold is inspected at least 7 days in advance of the work starting, assuming the scaffold has been erected for some time - just a sensible precaution in my view.
As for other matters, adherence to regulations or guidance can only be viewed from a 'reasonably practicable' perspective. In other words, if there is no better solution than to put up the scaffolds weeks/ months in advance of the work starting and access ladders have been removed/ locked, then that is your mitigation for such a system of work.
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