things are already happening re this area

Williams Except for RTA’s where they claim against the liable drivers insurance. There has been talk of extending this to work related injuries for a number of years.

Remeber that it will be the EL insurer that pays. Thus the employer is insulated from the direct costs - they are not "passed on" to the employer. Thus, it is, in my opinion, highly unlikely that the claiming back of such costs would act as any sort of motivator for employers to increase their efforts in H&S/risk management. Phil

This practice of cost recovery is extensive and has been for years with regards Public Liabilities - so the principles are set out. Underwriting risk is a pretty well though out business and insurers are in the business of making money like all other companies - so measures are already in place to penalize companies with poor safety records and high numbers of claims. This comes in the form of any excess amounts - if an employer has a high record of claims to keep his premium down he take an hit on the excess - so in essence you are self insuring for most claims and the underwriter is covering you for the big one! If you opt for ground up cover and the insures underwrites the whole risk but you pay a whacking premium for this. You have to declare your claims experience in any renewal process clarity in this is essential or its fraud. Employers aren't immune or insulated for any cost as its either the excess or the premium - you pay in the end and its a legal requirement to have it. So if you not good at safety you do pay one way or the other…………………………….

Morning Bob - Is there any further info available on the pilot? I presume any cost recovery scheme could only work once liability as been established as with PL……….. The two elements you discuss will, I presume again, will depend on the type of policy the employer has e.g. ground up or excess.

To pick up on a couple of points about how EL insurance works. Have to be brief - there is so much to write down. Excesses: This are extremely rare - non-existent - in EL insurance. OK they exist in Motor, household and even Public Liability insurance - but hardly ever in EL. They are generally regarded as being against the principles/aims of the EL (Comp Insurance) Act. Pricing: There are two methods. Firstly the employers accident/claim history is examined and then projected forward to generate an estimated premium. Costs and expenses (& profit) are added to this. But this approach can only be used for an employer who has claims and in sufficient numbers to makes the calculations sensible. Thus it is reserved for larger firms... And there aren't many of those!. Most SMEs have few claims, perhaps one every year or so at most. For these insurers adopt the pooling principle - the contributions of the many pay for the losses of the few. Thus there are books of rates for say printers or sheet metal workers. Insurers know, say, how many claims will come from 100 printers and can charge each of them the appropriate amount. Thus premiums for SMEs are based on what insurers call "book rates" that are adjusted by what we can find out about an insured's practices and approach to H&S/risk management. I would also add that after a claim an employer's premium will undoubtedly rise. But for an insured paying, say, £15k for their EL it will not rise by the £100k that may have been paid out for a claim. EL insurance is essentially a smoothing mechanism and does not really "concentrate the minds" of employers nor encourage them to improve on risk management. That was never its intention! Hope that makes sense Phil

The principle of compulsory ELI is a 'no blame' social utility system supported by legislation to ensure those that have been injured at work can claim redress for loss of earnings, amenities, etc from the employer's insurer. ELI was never designed to penal or even encourage employers to manage the risks they create - mores the pity.

Phil - I understand completely as I work for a very large company - I generally focus on this - in larger company's excesses are not as rare as you may think and we must remember they can be used also as and advantage to large company's…………….. If you have a good safety record and as a company you know you keep you staff safe and if needs be you have in place arrangements to defend claims - you can use the excess as a mechanism to self insure - take the risk yourself and keep down the premium - it would be in the hands of your Broker to do this on your behalf. You are righ we could spend all day on this!

Hi All, Great responses thank you, I think you answered my questions. As it happens I do know a company with a large excess which helps them keeps premiums down and does help to bring focus to accident prevention, although there are many other factors which also help in this area. I suppose the key issue for the NHS would be to keep track of all the injured persons to enable them to claim money back when fault is attributed. That would be a big task. BR