Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Guys and Gals of the Health and Safety world,
Could you please help direct me to some useful information.
Background:
I work for a company that works directly for a housing association. We have scaffolds that we have had erected out side of properties for different types of work. The housing association has authorised without our authorisation that a contractor other than us can use the scaffold. We do not know who the contractor is and they have just gone and used our scaffold.
My question:
Is there any legislation that I can use to put forth to the client to emphasize that this is not allowed? Or the reasons why this cannot be allowed?
Thank you in advance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I can't think of any specific legislation which prohibts the use of other's scaffolding, assuming of course the scaffolding it is fit for use and signed off as checked every 7 days etc. However, I could think of a number of reasons why a company would not be keen on others using it. Could you not remove the access ladder or install a locakable gate to prevent unauthorised access?
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Rank: Forum user
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More of a contractual issue i think.
Perhaps its in your contract to allow others to have access to the working platforms to carry out other works.
Al
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Rank: Super forum user
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Get yourself a copy of "Protecting the Public -your next move" HSE publication. HSG 151 (I think) for some useful guidance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Strike that- I didn't read your post through. Your scaffold erected for your purposes = your workplace though, under your control. MAybe everyone needs to sit together for the greater good though and work out something that delivers best value?
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Rank: Super forum user
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ron hunter wrote:Strike that- I didn't read your post through. Your scaffold erected for your purposes = your workplace though, under your control. MAybe everyone needs to sit together for the greater good though and work out something that delivers best value? That was my initial reaction...shared costs.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi all,
We had a similar incident last year, insurance company were not best pleased when they found out. Authorising manager almost lost his job. Just waiting for the renewal premium!!
You DO NOT want to be letting other contractors using your scaffolding without your permission or without the knowledge of your insurers.
I would suggest you tell the association that by "authorisng" others to use it they are in fact accepting liability. Might be a good idea to speak to their EHO as he will have a better undrstanding than the site manager who just wants to get the job done.
Good luck
Clive
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Rank: Super forum user
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You all seem to be thinking along the same line as me. I was thinking that the site is under our control but, it is not a site as such, it is a structure that is situated in a public accessible area. All ways to stop access have been taken i.e. removing of the ladder, so we have some our up-most on that part. I understand the point of best value, but the client is clearly letting other contractors use these scaffolds because they are getting a better rate, so I doubt they will listen from that prospective.
The best point I have heard on this forum which was the route to which I was going to venture was vicarious liability. I was thinking because the client is authorising these works to take place, and have not checked the adequacy of the scaffold before sending the contractor to do the works they would be in a dreadful situation should some thing happen to the member of the public or one of the operatives using the scaffold.
Not sure of what case law I can refer to for this circumstances though?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Your scaffold - you decide!
I dont think telling the association they accept liability would hold if one of your guys were seriously injured due to an accident where the scaffold had been adjusted or misused.
David
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Rank: Super forum user
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Agree with the others that this is not a good place to be. Do check your contract small print as this type of clause is sometimes slipped in. BUT, especially if you are the PC also, then you have the right to be told when this is happening, and who by, so that you have the opportunity to assess them for work on your site and with your equipment. The CDM regs are clear about who is in control of a site and it is NOT the client in any way shape or form.
I am always apprehensive about any client that wants a totally separate contractor to work on my site without any input from myself. Certainly the insurance issue is also one that cannot be avoided.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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jarsmith83 wrote:You all seem to be thinking along the same line as me. I was thinking that the site is under our control but, it is not a site as such, it is a structure that is situated in a public accessible area. All ways to stop access have been taken i.e. removing of the ladder, so we have some our up-most on that part. I understand the point of best value, but the client is clearly letting other contractors use these scaffolds because they are getting a better rate, so I doubt they will listen from that prospective.
The best point I have heard on this forum which was the route to which I was going to venture was vicarious liability. I was thinking because the client is authorising these works to take place, and have not checked the adequacy of the scaffold before sending the contractor to do the works they would be in a dreadful situation should some thing happen to the member of the public or one of the operatives using the scaffold.
Not sure of what case law I can refer to for this circumstances though? If you want to avoid the other contractor using YOUR scaffold (due to getting better rates) remove the bottom access ladder AND REMOVE THE SCAFF TAG. Problem solved.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Frank
This has already been done. It seems the contractor is using his own access ladder and has inspected the scaffold themselves.
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Rank: Super forum user
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jarsmith83 wrote:Hi Frank
This has already been done. It seems the contractor is using his own access ladder and has inspected the scaffold themselves. Not a legal bod but personally and in my opinion, i'd say that was not entirely legal.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Specifically, Regulations 5 & 6 of CDM apply to all parties.
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Rank: Super forum user
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ron hunter wrote:Specifically, Regulations 5 & 6 of CDM apply to all parties. Ron - absolutely spot on. I have just sent off an email addressed to the client with my concerns included. I have referred to Reg 5&6 plus specifically the clients duties and contractors duties, to restrict access etc. You have just backed up my research into this :-) which has made me feel a bit more confident in the letter I have sent now. Thanks everyone that contributed.
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