Hi

If it is set too fast and somebody trapped their fingers it will probably come back on you - safe access and egress or something the claims people will bleat.

I believe there are adjustable self closers that close quite quick until the last 5 degrees then it automatically slows down to protect any fingers that could still be in the way. (Similar to those posh loo seats you can get!)

I know you are doing the right thing explaining to your staff the changes and training them in the new door closing thing but it frustrates me that we have to go to these lengths - its just a door! (Not a go at you)

Hi Romany

To answer your question, I guess it depends who is using the door - if it's just employees I think your approach would be fine - if it's the public (especially children) more may need to be done.

HOWEVER, if, as it appears, you are the H&S Rep it's not your problem!! Let management sort it out, it's their job.

Ian A-H

quote=Ian A-H]Hi Romany

To answer your question, I guess it depends who is using the door - if it's just employees I think your approach would be fine - if it's the public (especially children) more may need to be done.

HOWEVER, if, as it appears, you are the H&S Rep it's not your problem!! Let management sort it out, it's their job.

Ian A-H

As the HASAWA is statute barred and IF the only persons entering your premises are briefed and this is recorded you are on reasonably safe ground. BUT you shouldn't be relying on this, look at the closure time for fire doors as your starting point.

Chris C
You missed my point, I took it that Romany is a union safety rep or representative of employee safety. It is not a function of these roles to put safety measures in place, that is a management responsibility.

All too often I have seen union reps "mis-used" by management because they are committed, knowledgeable and rightly held in high regard by their colleagues.

Ian

Chris42

I accept we don't know the full details here, so this is a caveat.

But I do agree.

Is this verging on the 'bonkers conkers' end of h&s.



Like you, wish you could upload photos etc, it would help to make a judgement as to the advice given.

Come IOSH update the site and get up to date with web page technology and inter action between forum users

I'm actually quite shocked by that - that your task is to find out how to stop your colleagues suing if they get hurt, not to find out what if anything needs to be done so that they don't get hurt.

Ok so - going back to the original question asked - which was where the company stands - the company here has a duty of care to ensure that the workplace and all work equipment (including internal doors) are effectively maintained.
If an employee (whether they have been informed of the defect or not) has an accident and suffers an injury as a result, they have the right to make a claim - it is then down to the solicitor to act on their behalf and the courts ultimately to decide whether to award compensation.

The company can of course 'fight' the claim by proving they have take all reasonable care and all reasonable action to prevent the accident from occurring in the first place.

Romany,
This is a little off topic but I think you need to be aware.

You describe yourself as a safety rep, but your employer appears to be using you as a Health & Safety Advisor.
You might think this is just a question of semantics but I assure you that’s not how most of us (here) would see it.

My advice is to be very careful what you are taking on.

Nope! but I'm sure they figured that as H&S rep/advisor/manager/person (delete as appropriate) you were used to giving unpopular instructions.

Good for you getting your CEO to sign off accident investigations! There's not many here that could claim that. :-)

The key bit for me here is the 'supposed to close the door firmly'. This would indicate that the door is faulty and is currently a potential breach of the Workplace Regs in which case there may be an issue if somebody is injured.

Once the door is repaired and fit for purpose there should be no need for any additional measures ( as there would say in a nursery, care home type environment).

It may be also be worth giving your insurer / broker a call and get their view.

Hence my careful use of the words 'Potential' and 'May' (not assuming anything).

The original poster says that the door is faulty and closes fast - that indicates a potential breach to me.

.... really, its just an office door, not a nuclear blast door or lion cage door. The word i would use is perspective.

1) fire precautions would (if this was a fire door) require it to shut completely into the door surround - as it has a self closer i am going to assume (no ass u and me jokes please) that it is a fire door. The poster doesn't say why the door isn't closing properly, it could be sticking on the smoke seal, or the closer could be faulty, or it could just be the wrong closer for the door, or the correct closer but incorretly fitted/adjusted. There should be no need for a 'fast closing' door, a properly designed closer will close a door slowly and firmly.
2) why would anyone have their fingers on the edge of a door? An employer is only expected to have reasonably practicable controls in place. A door is considered to be a 'normal everyday' item that does not require 'training' - however, under the occupiers liablity act, if you wished to avoid a claim then yes, briefing employees would be sufficient to avoid a claim - think case law on slippery leaves.
3) signs are useless, think case law on a trip over a slight step in a hospital, the sign didn't absolve the occupier of liability.
4) a lot of H&S professional started a H&S reps, i did when i was a truck driver and i rose through the ranks; i would always encourage reps, union or otherwise to get involved, its how they learn and gain experience. I would however encourage the poster to engage their employer to fund the NEBOSH General Certificate as IOSH MS is really just an awareness course.
5) It sounds as though the employer here has fallen into the H&S myth doom and gloom trap and is risk averse rather than risk aware. Shouldn't we professionals provide some helpful information rather than pointing the finger at management? After all, which profession has been running a scare campaign for years about the catastrophes that will ensue if you don't 'comply with the law' (very Judge Dread).
6) my advice would be in this situation, get the door looked at, repaired/replaced as necessary and then make a cup of tea. Sit your boss down and explain that the likelihood and severity of a claim from this is low and he should instead worry about making profit and keeping the employees in a job, improve the GDP and live a long stress free life - unless of course he's a banker then he can .........

PS Yes i know a h&S rep is unlikely to have access to case law, but the professionals on here should.