Rank: New forum user
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Hi Folks,
One of my clients a building contractor has just come to me with an odd query/issue.
It has come to light that an electrical installation contractor who he used from 2005-2008 has carried out some very poor work on building projects where my client was the main contractor.
Particular instances include 415v to a light fitting and a suspended ceiling grid being live.
The building contractor has approached the electricians who have said that as its over 3 years since the install it is beyond any warranty or guarantee period.
He then approached the NICEIC who were also not interested due to the work being over 3 years old and it potentially having been interfered with by someone else.
He then spoke to trading standards and consumer direct who advised contacting the HSE.
My feeling is that I don't think the HSE have the resource to investigate this issue and my client is afraid of opening a can of worms, however I find it unbelievable that the Trade Body (NICEIC) is unwilling to take up the issue with the company.
The building contractor is worried that someone may up hurt and wants to do the right thing but is afraid of ending up lumbered with the total cost of sorting everthing out because of rules on timescales.
Thoughts anyone?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Looks like a breach of the main contractors duty to employ a competent sub-contractor.
I fear that this will be a matter for expensive lawyers to sort out, not cheap(er) H&S practitioners!
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Rank: Super forum user
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David Bannister wrote:Looks like a breach of the main contractors duty to employ a competent sub-contractor.
I fear that this will be a matter for expensive lawyers to sort out, not cheap(er) H&S practitioners!
David beat me to it. If your client want's to do the right thing by their customer (which is admirable, a lot wouldn't) I suggest they start by pricing up the corrective works. It might hurt but I'm sure it will be an order of magnitude cheaper than going after the subby.
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Rank: New forum user
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I would agree with that usually however the Electrical Contractors in question are approved NICEIC installers and sucessfully completed a sub-contractors questionnaire.
The issues really pertain to the actual quality and safety of the worksmanship which isn't really something that can be assessed prior to the contractor being appointed as all the evidence indicated their competency.
I guess the work could have been checked by another competent party but this would increase costs dramatically.
Agree that it will be the lawyers sorting this one out.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Your client also needs to talk to their PI insurer if they wish to potentially recoup some of the re-work costs. They were the PC/ employing contractor and thus in law the work was undertaken by themselves and they are the person responsible to the client. Yes they can then claim from the subcontractor but that is another issue. The HSE may be interested but unlikely unless they have other information re this subcontractor.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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What management level within NICEIC have taken this up with?
Refer to:-
http://niceic.com/contractor/complaints
http://niceic.com/Uploads/File1912.pdf
Extracts from the compliants procedure:-
...........The Complaints Procedure is only offered for works that have been completed less than three years before the date the complaint is first registered with NICEIC and only to persons having a direct interest in the matter being complained about. This normally means that any complaint must be made by the customer (the person who ordered the electrical work) or someone acting on their behalf and at their request. Any other person wishing to make a complaint, such as a tenant who is not the customer, should normally refer the matter to the customer in writing; only in exceptional circumstances will NICEIC offer its Complaints Procedure to a third party.
However, many do not know that NICEIC is a part of the Ascertiva group and as a last resport, one may contact the relevant "certification council" of the Ascertiva Group
http://www.ascertiva.com/
Last, but not least, Ascertiva Group is linked with the Electrical Safety Council!
http://www.esc.org.uk/stakeholder/about-us/
http://www.ascertiva.com/about-us/management#
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi, having a background in electrical installation before i reached the heady hieghts of HSE i would say that a shot across the bows relating to thier duties under HASAWA may get a response especially if the local HSE office is cc'd in for extra effect. Maybe ask the local HSE inspector what he thinks.
Also-have a look at the Electrical Contractors Assosciation (ECA)-the contractor may be a member and they may be interested in the case. Of course the contractor will argue that they have properly inspected, tested and certified the installation in line with BS7671 and that the work was "ok" when they left and must have been tampered with but the bluff wont cost anything apart from a stamp. I assume there was a contractual 12 months defects period and then a retention was paid back to the subbie-shame?!?!
Anyway-other than that i can only think a trip tpo see your legal department might be the order of the day.
Good luck with it anyway.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Couple of questions.
The problem with 400V, it has not been 415V for a few years now at a light fitting is?
A live ceiling grid is an issue, however, these two could be linked.
Not the sort of thing you can easily explain on an internet forum.
The first thing you NEED to do is get a competent I&T on the premises.
Who found these "faults" and under what circumstance?
Regardless of the cost or other implications, you have a duty of care and a responsibility under statute law I suspect.
Now this may be down to the wigs, but better your wigs than Her Majesties!
Perhaps your first and cheapest call would be an independent expert witness in electrical installations?
I can put you in touch with one in your neck of the woods.
NOT me, I'm too far west & too busy!
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