Looking for opinions on career direction as I find myself in a predicament!! (please bear with the long post). My Status: - CMIOSH - BSc - 4 years total work experience since graduation - 3 years HSE management experience (current employer) I work for the UK arm of a large international company who operate throughout the UK with approx 10,000 employees. The company is in a relatively low risk sector for H&S. My employer are all about compliance not conformity and in my opinion not a very “mature” organisation. The H&S management system, including all risk assessments is developed and maintained centrally by us (as the “experts”) with limited operational line management or shop floor worker involvement (they must do as we say, but often this is not applied correctly or ignored). My Line Manager (Senior Manager) and Director are not H&S professionals and have moved into their positions from within. They are knowledgeable about H&S and good at the corporate stuff, but there is no buy-in for making a real difference. We can put on a good show to any enforcement agency etc. our documentation is excellent, but the reality is this is not happening at ground level. I’ve got lots of ideas on projects I’d like to develop however all my work has to be approved by my Line Manager and often my suggestions (even if there is a legal case for it) are dismissed on cost grounds or because line management wouldn’t have the time to take the responsibility on board. I’ve not had the opportunity to work with / implement OHSAS / behavioral safety initiatives / safety promotion initiatives / safety culture projects etc. and our accident stats are stagnant. This makes it more difficult to sell my achievements to others. Also the company are not generous with training, I have to argue to get the time off to attend free seminars as its “time out of the office”, let alone for the company to pay for me to go on a half decent IOSH CPD training course! The Problem They pay well! I’m on £38k which rises £5k each year to a cap of £53k. My line manager is really pleased with my progress and it’s likely that within 2-3 years I could make Senior Manager by the age of 30 (£58k - £70k over a 5 year cycle). I feel the pay is good based on my experience (excellent in a few years time) but worry that when I want to move out of London, securing similar level employment will be difficult due to the lack of “achievements” I’ll be able to show. I want to make a career in H&S, I aspire to be known with the profession etc. but with my current employer this is not possible (they don’t like outsiders looking in, we can’t publish any of the good stuff we have done in magazines etc. as we don’t want the attention etc.). What would you do to give the best chance of maximizing future earnings? Try and move to a new company, and accept that I’m not going to be paid as well, or stick with it?

You should not be involved in Safety if your prime concern is to maximise your earnings. You should only be involved in Safety if you want to im[prove working conditions for fellow workers or those at the coal face.

Stick in for another couple of years and see how you feel. Perception and attitudes may change (on both sides) and if you leave now you may regret it. Hardly a 'dead end' position and at your age you have a great chance of furthering your career. The money is important, although for London I would suggest your salary is OK but not enough to keep you there forever. Consider where your 'passion' or 'interest' lies and work towards a goal. In terms of cash reward for HSEQ roles then Oil & Gas associated work is paid very well, but its not straight forward to get into and hazard levels are rather high...Good luck and 'caw canny' young man.

Mr Safety, If your ultimate goal is to work in consultancy then it may be beneficial to gain as wide a range of experience as possible (as stated by JJ Prendergast). Review the job advertisements for consultant jobs, look at the experience required and determine if this experience can be gained in your existing company? In the next 12 months how much new learning and experiences will you gain in your existing position as opposed to a position in a new company or sector? Work experience and skills was once described to me as 'getting as many pieces of the jigsaw as possible'. If you stop collecting the pieces then maybe it is time to move on.

Its no secret that oil & gas pays probably the best salaries/contract rates You say you have a BSc - so depending on what you specialist topic is, may still permit you to transfer across into the O&G sector Transferring across into O&G can be done - I did it, but somehow you need to work your way across from what appears to be a fairly benign organisation at present, from the safety perspective. Maybe trying to get into associated areas would be your first move e.g. power/energy/utilities. As I have previously stated, simply having NEBOSH/IOSH qualifications probably won't be enough to get into O&G design engineering/technical support, so to that end at least your BSc may give you that tick in the box. From what I can see of the O&G industry - working on a platform is not the best paid area of safety within O&G, although it is very useful to have operational experience. (something I don't have in the O&G sector - my operational experience is aerospace and power generation) - however this leads to a similar mindset. My O&G experience is in design/process safety engineering within a design office - but past 'hands on experience' is very useful - but you also need the academics to allow you to move across from shop floor to design etc. In terms of salaries - just Google 'Technical Safety Engineers' or 'Safety Engineers' and you will get a fair idea of both staff/permanent jobs and contract rates. If you are flexible and prepared to move around/limited family ties etc - then salaries are pretty good. Certainly in comparision to conventional safety jobs that are frequently discussed on this forum. Plus you don't get bogged down in the crap of RIDDOR, DSE, little Jonny cutting his thumb etc etc Current contract rates (depends on location) - but north east UK £50-70 hr, Aberdeen £65-90 hr I have started to see rates in excess of £100 hr in Aberdeen. Based on about a working year of about 1920hrs - leads to a pretty good salary, plus tax benefits etc Even permanent jobs pay anwhere from £60k +, Aberdeen £80-90k are not uncommon. This makes the originally stated salary range, seem pretty low, especially for London. Why work for a naff salary?

Just by way of comparison, if you think your current salary is ok If your current salary is £38k, your gross pay rate is about £18.27 hr (nett £13.56 hr) Even £50k is only £24.04 hr gross (nett £17.24 hr) This puts things into perspective

Your EHO qualifications might allow you to do some environmental work, then slide back over to safety. If your single, it might be worth trying to get some short term work in Aberdeen, anything to start building experience on your CV. Guess you might have to supplement your income with other work. But even a modest contract rate would give your your annual salary within a matter of months. Bank the money and move on to the next contract. Avoid the temptation of blowing it all on a fast car, well at least not straight away!! Personally I prefer guys who have a bit of 'get up and go' and not prepared to sit back and accept their lot in life. How mundane just going to one office/factory for 40yrs...

Mr Safety There are a small number of routes into higher risk H&S work that are available. I also started with an EH degree and wanted to move into the higher risk, more interesting and ultimately higher paid work environment. The examples I can give from experience are 1. gain an extra qualification as an industrial/occupational hygienist and then move into industry 2. or work in the middle east for a couple of years, it's even worth suffering some time in Saudi if it means obtaining the right type of work experience. You will also put more into your bank account than you could ever achive in the UK which also sets you up for life. 3. move into a consultancy, however you won't be worth a lot to them unless you have done 1 or 2 first because if the consultancy can only charge you out at a high rate if you have experience, you will in turn achieve a higher salary. Good luck.

WIll be difficult to get into the higher risk sectors O&G / petro chem unless you are prepared to move closer to these sort of industrial areas Aberdeen, Teesside, Pembrokeshire etc etc

Depends who you work for. Loads of work in Pembrokeshire for me and the company I'm working with

As someone “who has made it” my advice would be to listen but not to necessarily accept all our advice as much of it could already be out of date. My experience is that in order to move forward, I have had to re-invent myself on a number of occasions and my current career plan is very different from the original one however one aspect that I have learnt is that your career often chooses you rather the other way round. Strategically I suspect that the role safety practitioner is going to be different in the future and many of the skills and knowledge required will be very different.

I take it you give your earnings to charity then. Of course money plays a factor, this goes hand in hand with wanting to better yourself with your career. I admire the main postee for wanting a challenge but I know quite a few H&S people who would gladly take the 40-50k.

Minor update, I've recontacted a Uni colleague who is an environmental advisor for overhead and cable electricity power projects. This may be an "in" and he thinks he can get me a contact and is going to ask around. The type of work he thinks I could get would be as SHE advisorv (ideal as I could gain more environmental experience). The problem, salary wise the roles would be at £30k - £35k (allbeit not in London). Also I'd be moving from "Manager" to "Advisor". Thoughts?

You have to decide what you want. The potential to earn £70k in the health and safety industry is a small minority of top managers that won't be involved in active hands on safety but managerial roles. Therefore to get similar roles outside of your current position would probably come from managerial skills than a broad range of H&S skills. Is that what you want? If it is then great but the opportunities to earn that sort of money outside of those top managerial roles is small. Hands on health and safety including consultancy generally doesn't pay that much unless you're very specialised and even then..... So what do you want. A management role that pays big bucks or a more hands on role that pays less? Most of us wouldn't be even in the position to make that choice (me included). Lucky you!! :-)

What a silly thing to say, he's already stated that his degree is environmental based and he doesn't have any work expereince. How on earth would he get work as self employed safety engineer earning big bucks? You might as well say quit H&S and go and be brain surgeon.

As a bit of a thread resurrection, and also by way of thanking those for their original contributions and to show those out there looking or thinking of moves etc. etc. I thought I'd share my latest update. I've just now accepted a role with an Oil Major as a management system implementation project lead for the retail sites (forecourts). Dream role so over the moon! The role is not OHS primarily but the management system covers OHS as well as various other business critical topic areas. I was alerted to the role via Linked In, by a recruiter who'd read my profile on there and messaged me asking if I was interested. This role was not advertised at all on any of the job sites (I have no idea why) or even on the company’s website. So I guess it's true what people say about the perfect role finding you rather than the other way round, and for those interested in moving or actively looking, polish your linkedin profile and make sure your skills are searchable etc. I think it’s also important to realise that these roles are out there to be had and one does not merely have to rely on advertised roles.

If you really want to earn the higher range salary in excess of $100000 then you will have to consider overseas in high risk areas to where I have managed to get started. I was in IACP only for an audit at the begining of December thankfully and then toured around 3 other sites in Algeria, and I am now working in Indonesia which is another highly volatile area. You have to be prepared to take a risk to work in these places, also if you have a family don't expect to see them that often due to rotation at present I work 90 days with 8 days off and 4 travel. So my children wonder who I am when I come home. The money is way more than you will earn in the UK unless you achieve the higher positions within a major company etc. But the sacrifice is high also so you have to consider that you do become isolated due to language barriers etc. So unless you can handle minimum conversation and long periods away from home then this won't be for you. I hope this helps any others considering this move?