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A client has a driver who wants to take his dog with him when he is working and carry it in the cab. I've been asked for an opinion.
I can't see it as being anything other than a real distraction to the driver and a physical hazard when it moves about the cab. But I'd like to hear some other views - confirmatory or otherwise!
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Rank: Super forum user
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I certainly would not like to see a dog in the cab of a HGV- or any other vehicle where it could interfere with the driver.
In my previous like I was the H&S Officer for a company with about 400 HGV's- no dogs allowed.
One for the NO brigade.
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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Geoff,
I have a somewhat jaundice view of dogs anyway - I'm no fan and I for the life of me, never understand the mentality of people who have dogs on their laps, hanging out the window whilst trying to drive?
I'd tell the driver to get a grip and do his job personally. His cab is his workplace, not a dog basket!
B Woodhouse (joke)
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Rank: Super forum user
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As it's Friday what a miserable pair - why not take the dog on to ride shot gun - might reduce your insurance premiums
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Rank: Super forum user
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Nowt wrong with taking your dog along - as long as it is safely secured and doesn't become a missile in the event of harsh braking or worse.
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MEden, don't play ruff!
Dogs in the office, in cabs, at site, in pubs.... no no no.
Back to the question - HGV is reversing, onboard rear view camera, flashing amber beacon, mirrors, maybe even an automatic breaking related sensor, banks person etc. to ensure the driver has the control measures in place necessary to carryout the manoeuvre safely. However, to counter all these systems a dog is walking / moving around in the cab - distracting the driver's attention.
Still a good idea?
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Is it a St Bernard or a chihuahua?
Don't you just love this forum :P)
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Ray, death involving construction plant / vehicles is very real.
I bet all incidents had the majority of the below systems onboard! So, with the consequences as significant as they are, why introduce another hazard unnecessarily during these high risk operations?
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SP
Apologies if my comment offended anyone, just a little light moment on a Friday.
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Whilst I agree with the sentiments of what SP900308 has written - Ray how do you get a large St Bernard in to the cab, I wouldn't want to pick one of those above shoulder height, we're now in to the realms of a manual handling assessment to pick up a big dog. What Next?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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As a general rule I am not hugely in favour of dogs 'loose' inth cab.
For those in the 'Look East' region, did anyone see the news story during the week of the thatcher (no not Thatcher) /roofer who took his rather large Labrador to work, carried it over his shoulder, up the ladder and plonked it onto the top of the roof where it sat all day quite happily? I wonder if the HSE were watching?!
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Driving can be a lonely occupation and, if you like dogs, your dog can be welcome company. I take my dog with me on my travels, and she stays with me in dog-friendly hotels, b&bs, pubs, etc. It is amazing how many people will stop and talk to a stranger who has a dog! A dog-harness secures the dog on the seat and does not permit it to move off that seat. A constrained dog is perfectly ok.
However, an unconstrained dog in a moving vehicle or with the vehicle engine running is a significant hazard. I have investigated accidents where the dog has, in all probability, inadvertently operated the machine causing injury, and death, to the driver. A Scottish farmer was crushed to death by his dog activating the controls of his tractor...http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/pet-dog-drove-tractor-that-killed-farmer-1-2067918
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Rank: New forum user
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What a trhead...Wow...bow wow...I have 2 dogs and this thread caught my eye when I should be updating my IOSH CPD points. Please can you all get back to work and stop writing such interesting threads. Having my dogs at work? I'd love it - but it's a no from me too - S.Cowell (does that spell scowl?)
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Rank: Super forum user
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No different to having a dog in any vehicle, so long as it is restrained then it's no problem. Dogs can get a harness that attaches to the seatbelt. But I don't like dogs wandering around any vehicle, whether at work or not. It's dangerous for the driver but also the dog.
Dogs at work (and home) are known to be good for lowering stress levels. I'm often fussing my clients dogs whilst on their premises (a significant amount of them have dogs), having a coffee and a chat, it's fab. Relaxing for me, the dog and the client. So why not have your dog with you at work, even in a lorry.
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Ancient history from me - over 20 years ago when considering a prosecution for Driving Without Due Care and Attention (WDCA) a driver claimed his dog jumped onto his lap and caused the accident, hence not WDCA on his part. We successfully prosecuted him for driving with an insecure load, same fine same points on licence.So I'd say it's a secure load issue, something HGV drivers should understand.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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15 replies in on this HEALTH and safety thread and no mention of the health aspects.
Some years ago, I worked for a driving agencies in between shifts. I once turned up to drive an articulated truck from London to Glasgow and back. This required an overnight sleep in the cab. The regular driver obviously had a dog which accompanied him and the entire cab was covered in hairs. The haulage company offered me a hoover (which bizarrely I accepted) and it was when sucking up about three tonnes of pooch hair I discovered that the mattress suffered from a very strong odour of dog saliva.
With no other tractor unit available, and the prospect of sleeping face down on this contaminated mattress, the load didn't leave the depot that night (well, not driven by me it didn't). The company were angry, but thankfully, the driving agency were fine about my decision. Taking into account the haulage company's anger, I wonder whether a directly employer driver would have been able to say no and keep his/her job.
Many dog owners seem oblivious to how filthy even a house trained dog can be. You see it on the 'sell your house' TV shows when prospective buyers almost gag as they walk into a dog owner's smelly home. Dogs (pets), like kids, have no place in the workplace (especially where that involves communal sleeping accommodation) so should be left at home.
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In comes Claire, the voice of reason. The problem here is as with many h&s issues there is always some risk. Rather than find ways to reduce the risk it is easier to just say "no", without looking at the benefits or dare I say, accepting a degree of risk.
By way of an analogy, I was asked this week by one of our electrical technicians at a team meeting if he should lock the gates when visiting remote sites of the client for safety and security. Now, the problem is that if he locked himself in the property and experienced some difficulties he could create other risks. After a discussion I decided to leave the decision to the individual based on the location and other factors. I don't think that is a cop out - sometimes there are no rights or wrongs.
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I do a lot of work for a large pet retailer and they have a policy of taking their pets to work, usually dogs.
While I have never seen a dog in the cab of their delivery vehicles I can see no need to object as long as everything has bee R/A'd and the dog is harnessed.
What a good deterrent to potential thieves.
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Good god (or should that be Good dog?)
I am neither a dog lover or hater, so no axe to grind here.
The fact that this topic has generated so much comment leaves me in despair.
its a dog in a truck for heavens sake.
Here in New Zealand, a large proportion of truckers, construction workers etc take their pooch to work.
So far as I can tell, accidents caused by badly behaved pets are not a huge issue.
Might I respectfully suggest there are bigger fish to fry (just not while your driving!).
KiaOra
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Have to say it but this is really no different from any other 'imported' risk. If it's really an issue then do an assessment, make some recommendations and then put the onus back on the client for the final decision.
One thing worth considering though is that the insurers may have a problem with a pooch in the cab. Before doing too much work get in touch with them, they may make the decision for you.
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I recently witnessed an accident where a car crash (Minor bump) resulted in the drivers getting out to speak to one another and the dog from one car escaped onto the A1 and was hit by another car. it was quite distressing for us all as the doggie was seriously hurt and was taken to a vet by the police and put down. Thankfully no-one (human that is ) was hurt however, we could do nothing to help as the road was extremly busy so we had to wait in a lay by until the police came (very quickly I might add - well done Lothian and Borders Police).
the car which hit the doggie was damaged at front but drivable.
If the doggie had a doggie seatbelt this wouldn't have happened. So whether at work or private - secure your pets.
I secure my cat basket with a seatbelt and position it so it can't fly about.
Lilian
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Rank: Super forum user
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messyshaw wrote:
Many dog owners seem oblivious to how filthy even a house trained dog can be. You see it on the 'sell your house' TV shows when prospective buyers almost gag as they walk into a dog owner's smelly home. Dogs (pets), like kids, have no place in the workplace (especially where that involves communal sleeping accommodation) so should be left at home.
No place in the workplace? What about farmers, dog handlers, guide dogs, asssitance dogs... The fact that you have judged all dogs and the homes that they live in (as smelly) based on a secdond rate TV programme that takes the very worst homes to make good telly just shows what level you're coming from really.
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According to websites such as http://www.ehow.com/how_...2_take-pet-trucking.html it seems to be commonplace for American lorry drivers (‘truckers’) to take dogs with them on their journeys - and cats as well! The website also mentions that a few truckers have been known to take more unusual creatures including a pot-bellied pig, a small goat and even a boa constrictor snake! Even so, apparently most truckers prefer to take a dog or cat with them as ‘friend, confidant and companion’. The website includes advice for truckers about measures to ensure the health and safety of their pets, along with ‘petiquette’ (a new word perhaps to sprinkle in your conversations!), but apparently nothing about insurance requirements. Also, for those curious to see a trucking moggy, look for a YouTube clip showing “Lava” who accompanies her/his/its owner (on a lead) as he checks his load and tyres. All part of "life's rich tapestry"! :-)
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Geoff - your Employer's choice at the end of the day!
I stick by my comments. In essence, why introduce an unnecessary hazard into a high risk environment?
If I was an employer I wouldn't tolerate it. Come to work, do your job, concentrate and don't bring your pets along with you!
For the record, even if I liked dogs (which I don't) I'd still say the same....
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I was filling my car at a service station when the Transit van pulling in behind ran into the back of my car (at slow speed) causing some damage and a minor fuel spill. The driver got out of the van an apologised that he could not apply the brakes as his dog was lying by his feet and 'got in his way'. I think that any mutt in a vehicle should be restrained so that they cannot interfere with the controls or become a flying object in an accident. Luckily, he was insured (the driver not the dog!) and it was on CCTV.
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GeoffB4 wrote:A client has a driver who wants to take his dog with him when he is working and carry it in the cab. I've been asked for an opinion.
I can't see it as being anything other than a real distraction to the driver and a physical hazard when it moves about the cab. But I'd like to hear some other views - confirmatory or otherwise! I dont see this as a problem if the dog is secure, a lot of construction muck away wagon drivers bring their dogs with them, (one guy even had a hi-vis for his dog with little paw prints on it). I have a cat who will not sit in her transport box, but will happly sit on the front seat of the car on her visits to the vet (granted a 5min drive once a year)
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I think the information is very sketchy anyway. Surely the type of vehicle, length of trips and type of dog including it's age and nature play a part in this? In any event, I would advise against it if it were me he was asking, purely because I wouldn't want to be liable in the event of an accident/incident which resulted by the driver being distracted by his dog! I don't think it would do your professional integrity any good if you ended up in court and admitted you thought it was ok for a driver to take a dog in a cab. Advise against it and they will probably do it anyway, but at least your professional integrity will be intact.
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Just one more thing to add to this. What about your clients insurance company? I can't imagine they would be very happy about it. It might even invalidate his insurance.
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Rank: Guest
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Are Budgies allowed?
Sorry couldn't resist!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Clairel wrote:messyshaw wrote:
Many dog owners seem oblivious to how filthy even a house trained dog can be. You see it on the 'sell your house' TV shows when prospective buyers almost gag as they walk into a dog owner's smelly home. Dogs (pets), like kids, have no place in the workplace (especially where that involves communal sleeping accommodation) so should be left at home.
No place in the workplace? What about farmers, dog handlers, guide dogs, asssitance dogs... The fact that you have judged all dogs and the homes that they live in (as smelly) based on a secdond rate TV programme that takes the very worst homes to make good telly just shows what level you're coming from really. Clairel: I am surprised at you for not reading my post correctly. I said no place for pets in the workplace, and I was highlighting the difficulty that some dogs owners have at not appreciating the foul smell some dogs leave behind as the (the owners) become accustomed to the whiff. Another problem some dog owners have is they are so quick to cut down any criticism of their (or any) pooch, they fail to read things properly.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I did read your post properly.
Farmers are in a workplace, dog handlers can be in workplaces, assistance dogs and guide dogs can also have to be in workplaces. I was pointing out your generalisation of 'dogs' in 'workplaces' is misplaced.
You actually said that even house trained dogs smell. Well that is just not the case. Poor ownership and poor housekeeping leads to smelly dogs and smelly homes. The majority of us dog owners are good owners who brush and clean our dogs and adopt good housekeeping. Don't tar all of us with the brush of the poor minority who appear on trashy TV programmes. That was my point.
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Clairel wrote:I did read your post properly.
Don't tar all of us with the [same] brush
Clairel, didnt you just tar all the persons who work in the public sector with the same brush where you say "especially in the public sector where most offices resemble an office catalogue.". Now that is tarring everyone with the same brush, totally unjustified. When I was a council auditor council places and equipment were ancient and were falling apart at that. I see you've been on the past few threads being negative and sticking it to people, you must have had a bad day... best get on here and have a rant huh :p
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rockybalboa wrote:
I see you've been on the past few threads being negative and sticking it to people, you must have had a bad day... best get on here and have a rant huh :p
Says he who has just come onto one thread to moan about comments made on another thread! Pot....kettle....black.... I haven't 'stuck it' to anyone. Belive me you know if I did. Me and Messyshaw have had a chat and we're cool. We understand where each other are coming from.
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Clairel wrote:
Says he who has just come onto one thread to moan about comments made on another thread!
Pot....kettle....black....
I haven't 'stuck it' to anyone. Belive me you know if I did.
Me and Messyshaw have had a chat and we're cool. We understand where each other are coming from.
I wasn't moaning, merely pointing out your hipocrisy :D So....There...You go...... :P Ok, please stick it to me, I'm interested now... oh wait, sounds like posturing, go on rattle the sabre more ;) Ok, I'm glad you and Messy shaw are cool, sounds like you're chilling out, maxing and relaxing all cool and all shooting some b-ball outside of school when a couple of guys they were up to no good started making trouble in our neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared she said your moving in with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air I whisted for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and had dice in the mirror if anything i could say that this cab was rare but i thought nah, forget it yo home to bel-air!
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chilling out, maxing and relaxing all cool and all shooting some b-ball outside of school when a couple of guys they were up to no good started making trouble in our neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared she said your moving in with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air I whisted for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and had dice in the mirror if anything i could say that this cab was rare but i thought nah, forget it yo home to bel-air!
Haha! I love the fresh prince.
Seriously though, a HGV driver should not be allowed to take his dog to work with him. That's an outrageous request
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rocky
Fridays don't come around quick enough eh, maybe in the meantime cut down on the coffee or whatever else you are drinking ! or al least share with the rest of us.
I personally would have a problem with this as I am allergic to dogs. However providing the insurance don't mind and the animal is secured with an appropriate harness, why not spread some happiness -there is not much around at the moment. The only other issue may be from other drivers who could be like me, if it is a case that this driver has to frequently swap vehicles or others frequently have to ride shotgun with him.
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Rank: Super forum user
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rockybalboa wrote:
Ok, please stick it to me, I'm interested now... oh wait, sounds like posturing, go on rattle the sabre more ;)
Anyone who has been on the forum for as long as me would know my reputation for getting stuck into a thread when I feel passionate about something. Sadly I'm not allowed to anymore. I've had my butt kicked so many times by the Mods that I have to be a (relatively) good girl nowadays!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris, I remember having to put blankets over my kids on holiday (caravan) and the blankets were covered in dog hairs and smell.
Watching dog owners let their dogs pee on lampposts, comms cabinets, the neighbours conifer, bins, posts, fence, gates, poo on their grass (and most of the time leave it there). For me Clairel and any other pro-dog people, this isn't in my experience a minority thing, this is the norm!
If I did that to a dog owners property, would they be happy?
Pretty much sums up dogs and dog owners for me.
I'd ban dogs from everywhere personally, especially playing fields, pubs, caravans and workplaces. And yes, some of it on the grounds of health (children rolling around playing football in the stuff), mostly on the grounds of unpleasantness. Unless of course they are providing a vital service.
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Interesting debate!
Don't know if the regs have changed as I've been away from the field for a while, but CDG (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) did not permit anyone in the cab but members of the vehicle crew, thereby prohibiting pets!
I'm a dog owner myself, but would see practical difficulties in allowing pets in commercial vehicles.
If you're an owner/driver you've only got yourself to worry about with regard to per hairs/odours etc.
However, as many vehicles are rotated around different drivers these days, the practical consideration would be not to permit pets on board, as the next driver in line may be allergic at worst and not like it at best. So, without a full cab clean-down at every change over, no pooch!
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SP900308 wrote:
Watching dog owners let their dogs pee on lampposts, comms cabinets, the neighbours conifer, bins, posts, fence, gates, poo on their grass (and most of the time leave it there). For me Clairel and any other pro-dog people, this isn't in my experience a minority thing, this is the norm!
Yes my dog pees on lamposts etc. You don't think that foxes and other animals do too? What about bird poo everywhere? Pigeon poo is well documented for it's health risks. Come to think of it go into town on a saturday night and it'll be the drunks you see peeing up the lamposts!! However, what really makes me cross is that cats have free roam and can wander into my garden, do their business on my lawn and the owner doesn't have to be accountable at all. Now that makes me cross. People can go blind from the bacteria in cat poo. :-(
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