Rank: Forum user
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We’ve recently had an external company in to carry out testing on our power tools for vibration levels, some of the results have been very interesting, although not surprising, with a few tools (such as grinders and sanders) resulting in readings up to 27.35m/s2 (the worst case), with the majority coming in between 15 and 12, which results in ELV readings in the region of an hour to an hour and a half. Our operatives are typically required to use these tools for a long longer.
Our query is this – the actual results of the tools (which are typically worn, but always maintained as per manufacturers recommendations etc. with new sanding pads, blades etc) from the survey were a lot higher than the figures quoted from the manufacturer (which I know we should ignore to a point as they’re tested with new tools, in lab conditions etc.). If we were to take the readings from the actual test, then they are unworkable – one gave us a daily limit value of 16 minutes, however if the manufacturers figures are taken into account, then they can be used for a lot longer.
I’m aware that when bought, obviously through time the vibration readings in metres per second will increase due to wear and tear (possibly), but where do we go from here? We use the actual readings and it then becomes unworkable, or use the manufacturers information?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I'd query the results if you're saying that field test results exceeded the manufactuerers data as that's never been our experience. I think even the HSE advise a doubling of figures if you're just going to run with manufacturers data.
Also, make sure everyone understand what "trigger time" is as opposed to the time a task may take, with the tool sitting idle for long periods.
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Rank: Forum user
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We had a similar problem with some of our equipment, for the ones with the highest readings we sent them out to be properly serviced then had them retested, it reduced the readings by quite a large amount in some cases, for others we removed them from use and bought new ones or for some operations changed to a different supplier and power type, ie air driven instead of electric. Trigger time is also very relevant, sometimes operators are not aware of the difference.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Vibration readings are notoriously unreliable. And I was told that by a vibration specialist!!.
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Rank: Guest
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Having carried out vibration testing on a complete range of grounds maintenance tools and workshop tools (incl grinders and sanders), i find these results you have been given to be very high.
Few questions - How many times were each machine tested? Was the readings taken at the trigger and by what method?
I have found sanders average in about 8m/s2 and grinders about the same.
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Rank: Super forum user
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In line with Claire’s comment, I attended a joint eff/HSE seminar on vibration some time ago and the HSE vibration guru’s said the vibration measurements are notoriously unreliable, with consecutive measurements of the same piece of kit using the same measuring equipment often varying by 50% or more.
The HSE have revised their previous advice on doubling up the manufacturer’s data (don’t) and this can be found on the HSE HAVS page.
Although I don’t have any experience of measuring the vibration levels of the specific tools that you refer to they do appear to be particularly high and I personally would be a little sceptical unless these were really old tools (which I assume they aren’t if there is manufacturer’s vibration data available). I have been dealing with grounds maintenance kit for quite some time including chainsaws, strimmers etc with nothing like 27m/s. In fairness and as I have already said, I haven’t experience of orbital sanders, so perhaps your readings are genuinely demonstrative of that kit, but I’m not convinced (if that isn’t repetitive or contradictory!)
Having said that the HSE have changed their advice, I also recognise that the manufacturer’s data is unlikely to be truly representative of the vibration in operational conditions. In an attempt to try and come to a reasonably robust figure without resorting to the measurement route I spent quite some time talking to the technical manager of the manufacture whose grounds maintenance kit we tend to use to try ‘agree’ and approach that we both felt would be reasonably demonstrative of ‘in service ’ vibration levels.
I am not sure what to suggest as the best course of action. Some might argue that having carried out the measurements, that you have opened Pandora’s box and have little choice but to go with that. You could retest with another consultant, but that’s an additional cost and doesn't guarantee too much. The best advice I can give is to discuss your concerns with the consultant who did your measuring and query why the readings are disproportionately high and seek a ‘reassurance’ retest. You could also ask for and ensure that you are satisfied with their methodology used, although you should have already done this before employing them. If you subsequently decide to go with the manufacturer’s data I suggest you read the HSE HAVS site about using this as an initial assessment.
Hope you get it sorted.
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Rank: Super forum user
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When, at a previous place, we did testing the figures all exceeded the manufacturers by a margin. That said many manufacturers now have 'in use' data on their websites.
Direct monitoring using 'on tool' monitors such as HAVMeter (no connections) can track exposure times but do rely on programming to be worthwhile.
Instruction on how to use the tools and gripping correctly, letting the tool do the work and not 'forcing' it may give a reasonable result.
For the most part 'anti-vibration' gloves aren't.
The specialist inspectors were very helpful, particularly offering guidance on the OH and monitoring aspects.
It can be a major pain if you have more than a few tools and workers using them, tracking and recording exposures can become a monster in its own right.
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Rank: Super forum user
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After having extensive experience in the field over many years from the early 1990's [With the HSE and others] when mobile test kit was in its very early infancy I have found that there are stories, fairy tales and manufacturers data so in all cases undertake your own measurements [via outside or in-house people] and go from there remembering that it is a judge and not the HSE who decides a case in a court and you must prove that you have done all that it was reasonably practicable to do
NB: Also remember that you should be testing people not just kit as its the dose a person gets that the courts focuses on
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Rank: Super forum user
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Do you have every confidence in this external company? There are so many vairiables and several margins for error with field testing and it is usual to take a significant number of measurements with different people, work materials etc. One-off readings obviously increase margin for error exponentially. A loose transducer and the whole thing becomes a mockery. I personally recall getting similar readings myself with a strimmer many years ago. The problem lay with securing (or otherwise!) of the transducer block - still I think the major area of weakness.
A reputable company should have taken an appropriate sample. If all else fails, bring them back again. There is simply too much at stake to upset the whole operation of your undertaking, and neither can you simply ignore the data you've got. I note too that you mention replacement of consumable items in the context of "maintenance" - not really the same thing! Worn bearings and loose fixings are the obvious culprits. Note too that some cutting discs (e.g. 3M) give vastly superior vibration characteristics. Hope this helps.
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Rank: Forum user
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I think everyone has got horror stories regarding this subject. We use impact wrenches as part of our installation process and maximum 'trigger time' has reduced there use to 45 minutes in an 8 hour day. Seeing as the task can take up to 4 hours, we had to look at other ways of undertaking the task and settled on the tried and trusted method of a couple of spanners and a bit of brute force. I'm now expecting the incidence of muscle strains to go up................yer cant win eh, sheeeeeeeesh.
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Rank: Forum user
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EySee we had the same problem but we are now using a system that is very effective if you pm me with your number I will explain the system we use
Chris
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