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Safety butterfly  
#1 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:02:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety butterfly

Hello,

Can anyone advise me please, I have been asked to attend a training course for work along with 2 other colleagues, which is out of our local area. One of my colleagues is a senior manager and has offered to drive us all to location in their own car, which is all fully road legal well maintained etc.

The question I have is this, should an accident occur are we covered as the vehicle is being used for work purposes, or should I try and convince them a taxi or train or car hire would be the better way to go ??? We don't have a company car.

Can anyone advise me of legalities or relevant regulations that I could use to approach the manager in question???

Thank you in advance.
DP  
#2 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:11:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Is it a company car?
kdrum  
#3 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:15:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kdrum

Sam I would get manager to ensure he is covered for business use with insurance and not just social, domestic and pleasure
CliveLowery  
#4 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:17:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Sam,

As I understand it, you will need "Business Use" on the insureds policy, some insurers provide commuting but as it is not your usual place of work IMHO you will not be covered! A lot of insurers will add this for no or minimal charge.

Check with the insurers.

Regards

Clive
Safety butterfly  
#5 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:37:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety butterfly

Hi DP, In answer to your question - No it is not a company car.

Clive / Kdrum, I have already has this conversation with the manager and the response was " well if we get stopped for any reason we can say we are visiting friends or something" ( I am not happy about this)

I did think that it would be covered by a separate insurance, So thanks to everyone for backing up my original thoughts.
simon_gb  
#6 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:38:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
simon_gb

Sam,

As the training courses are encompassed under 'work duties' (your employer has requested you attend), your employer would still be liable to provide a duty of care to your colleagues and yourself during both your attendance at, and whilst travelling to/from the training venue.
If your senior manager's car is a company car, or he has declared it as an opted out company car, he should still have adequate insurance (and paperwork to support this).
If it is an 'opt out vehicle', has he filed copies of the insurance/MOT/service agreement with your HR or Insurance Department? Your company has a duty of care to ensure that his vehicle is road legal, taxed, tested, insured etc etc for him to perform his job safely.

Hope the above helps,

Simon
simon_gb  
#7 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:41:44(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
simon_gb

Sam, if he has not got adequate business use insurance, take the public transport option.
CliveLowery  
#8 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:55:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Sam,

Let's be honest - it is unlikely you will be stopped for a random check or other inoculous reason. The main scenario of having to produce any insurance documents will be as an after effect of an event, such as an accident. The insurance companies are not stupid - 3 work colleagues travelling during worktime to visit a friend on a social trip would not wash with them.

I think if you cannot establish "Business Use" you should use Public Transport.

Clive
Safety butterfly  
#9 Posted : 23 May 2012 12:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety butterfly

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the advice, it does look as though public transport is the way to go !!
chris42  
#10 Posted : 23 May 2012 13:17:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

You just might want to double check with the manager to ensure he was not joking before you create about it. Explain you are not comfortable with the arrangement if he does not have business cover, he may be more than willing to add it if the company pays. It will also likely be cheaper for the company.
DaveDowan  
#11 Posted : 23 May 2012 13:28:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveDowan

From my experience if the vehicle is not normally used for business use and this is a rare occurrence then it will be covered by the normal policy.If the car is used for business on a regular basis the he should already be insured.
It would best for him to call his insurance company to confirm this . It may be just my insurance company but when i did ask they didnt charge me for business use .
regards Dave
Steven n  
#12 Posted : 23 May 2012 13:29:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steven n

Would you not be covered as a third party anyway? The outcome of any incident would be he would not be covered for damage to his car, you have warned him so it his own fault.
HSSnail  
#13 Posted : 23 May 2012 15:46:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Is traveling to a one off training course classed as work related travel? Any insurance experts out there please.
Safety butterfly  
#14 Posted : 23 May 2012 15:53:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety butterfly

Hello All,

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice,

As Brian has said, I would love to hear from any insurance experts on this one !!
barnaby  
#15 Posted : 23 May 2012 15:53:57(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Sam Paskin wrote:
Hi Simon,

Thanks for the advice, it does look as though public transport is the way to go !!


Why not ask the driver to check with his insurance company.
Phil Grace  
#16 Posted : 25 May 2012 08:14:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Insurance expert... Well - I know a little about liability insurance but much less about motor. So, here goes:

- If travel is for a work related activity then it is business use - no doubt
- If employees use their own car for business travel then either they need to extend their own insurance beyond what is called SDP - social, domestic and pleasure to include occassional business use. I think these have now been organised ito "classes" - see another recent post. Alternatively it is possible for the employer's own fleet policy to provide the "occ business use" cover.
As often said - ask the insurer!

You might want to think about the "key man" exposure. Having several employees exposed to the same risk may be problematic. It may be a very low risk but for a small firm (for example) having three potentially cirtical employees exposed to risk of injury and in turn absence might be to much to bear/accept. Independent travel reduces that risk.
Phil
KD  
#17 Posted : 25 May 2012 09:28:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kd

Not an insurance expert, but try this. There are two topics here. The first is motor insurance, and the second is employer’s liability insurance.

On the first (motor insurance) it is not your responsibility to ensure the vehicle you are travelling in is insured that responsibility is the driver’s. if are knowingly travelling in a vehicle that is not insured for a particular journey, because the journey is business not social domestic or pleasure, there is an outside chance of being prosecuted for adding and abetting (or whatever it is called these days). That is a VERY outside chance and is not reasonably foreseeable even in the event of an accident. If you were injured in an accident the motor insurance would not officially cover you but the insurer may payout due to the circumstances. If they do not, there is some cover provided by a non-insured drivers fund that insurance companies pay into.

On the second point (employers liability), as our employer has instructed you to attend the training you are at work, and presumably in normal working hours. Your employer’s insurance will continue to cover you for any incidents that occur. The actions of the driver are covered by vicarious liability. This is not normally used by employees as there is a more specific insurance normally in place, motor insurance, but this cover will extend to all work activities, and this is a work activity. This may even provide a greater level of cover.


Safety butterfly  
#18 Posted : 25 May 2012 12:28:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety butterfly

Hi,

Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone for your input.

Sam.
ctd167  
#19 Posted : 28 May 2012 13:35:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ctd167

The first place to look for detailed information is your companies driver policy, which should detail the requirement for the use of vehicles whilst on company business.
For occasional users such as myself, the company i work for provide a hire vehicle for anyone who requires occasional travel whilst on company business, which works fine, as the insurance onus then lies with the companies motor insrance policy and not the owner/ driver.
myudeen  
#20 Posted : 28 May 2012 17:30:13(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
myudeen

Sam Paskin wrote:
Hello,

Can anyone advise me please, I have been asked to attend a training course for work along with 2 other colleagues, which is out of our local area. One of my colleagues is a senior manager and has offered to drive us all to location in their own car, which is all fully road legal well maintained etc.

The question I have is this, should an accident occur are we covered as the vehicle is being used for work purposes, or should I try and convince them a taxi or train or car hire would be the better way to go ??? We don't have a company car.

Can anyone advise me of legalities or relevant regulations that I could use to approach the manager in question???

Thank you in advance.

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