Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
BuzzLightyear  
#1 Posted : 04 July 2012 12:22:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BuzzLightyear

http://www.hse.gov.uk/co...-from-judith-hackitt.pdf I am not reassured by this letter. Removing the Construction Head Protection Regulations might make sense on an academic level because it is duplicated within the PPE Regs. However in the real world I can already hear the mistaken media headline 'hard hats not needed on construction sites anymore'. I can hardly imagine tabloid and torygraph journalists being interested in knowing the PPE Regulations. Just think of all the mess with the Working at Height Regulations and how they were portrayed.

Edited by moderator 06 July 2012 16:12:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 04 July 2012 12:56:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

When it comes to misconception (or just plain mischief making) by the press, the letter you reference and the views of Judith Hackett, TUs, or you or I are all entirely irrelevant. The real nonsense is contained within the text of the EDMs. There's no editorial control to be exercised on Political Party Politics or the nonsense spouted in Parliament. Remember many years ago when the Asbestos Regulations were under discussion in the lower house and one MP (John Selwyn Gummer I think) stood up with the opinion that, given that science hadn't determined a "safe" lower limit for exposure to asbestos fibres, then it must be assumed that one fibre could be deadly. Thus was the "single fibre theory" born. Oh boy - did the press have fun with that or what! Nothing changes.
PIKEMAN  
#3 Posted : 04 July 2012 13:34:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

But as Asbestos is a Carcinogen, the ALARP principle applies..........................therefore no "safe" level exists. The WEL is a compromise based on socio economic factors. 1 fibre could, in theory, lead to lung cancer.
BuzzLightyear  
#4 Posted : 05 July 2012 08:53:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BuzzLightyear

Pikeman wrote:
But as Asbestos is a Carcinogen, the ALARP principle applies..........................therefore no "safe" level exists. The WEL is a compromise based on socio economic factors. 1 fibre could, in theory, lead to lung cancer.
I find myself agreeing with both of you on this! Technically/theoretically may be there is a risk that one fibre can kill based on extrapolating exposure and harm on a graph. However, the policies of ripping out asbestos from numerous public buildings in the 80's may have caused more exposure. Not the intended outcome I am sure but the outcome of looking at a risk in such a black and white manner. I wonder if we all have some asbestos fibres in our lungs - from millions of cars on the roads that used to have asbestos brake pads or tavelling on the London underground. It's similar to debates around radiaton where you have to appreciate there is a level of cosmic radiation we are exposed to all the time to put low level exposure risks in to context, so as a society we probably should not panic too much about extremely low levels of exposure to carcinogens. Coming back to my original post. Does anyone agree or disagree that removing the Hard Hat regulations may lead to presumptions that hard hats are not required anymore?
Jane Blunt  
#5 Posted : 05 July 2012 09:03:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

BuzzLightyear wrote:
Coming back to my original post. Does anyone agree or disagree that removing the Hard Hat regulations may lead to presumptions that hard hats are not required anymore?
Buzz, it probably will, but it will only be for the short term. It is not the first time that specific regulations have been removed and subsumed into other legislation. At one time there were separate carcinogen regulations, then along came the all-embracing COSHH. In principle I think duplication should be removed, and then we all have to deal pro-actively with the misunderstandings that this could cause in the short term.
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 05 July 2012 09:35:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I agree with Jane, indeed the wearing of hard hats in a construction environment has become so ingrained in the culture that it rarely presents a problem on site.
pete48  
#7 Posted : 05 July 2012 10:17:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

I agree with Jane and Ray. We should remember that the CHPR (1989) pre-dates the 6 pack (1992) and thus the PPE Regs. It should perhaps have been removed as part of the 6 pack but it wasn't. From an outside perspective, the safety culture in Const is very different from the mid to late 80's when the CHPR was introduced simply because the sector failed/refused to self regulate on the issue. I doubt that it will have any real impact on what happens on most construction works. This would be a useful removal as it gives politicians something to claim as a victory for common sense and less bureacracy but doesn't reduce any duty on employers. A reduction in paperwork and safety laws, hoorah. p48
Graham Bullough  
#8 Posted : 05 July 2012 10:29:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Buzz - If HSE ensure that the information about the removal of the 'hard hat' regulations clearly includes a brief explanation that their ambit is already covered by the PPE regulations and therefore head protection will still need to be provided and used where necessary, I don't think there will be any problem. Such explanation would be complemented by the fact that, as RapRapp points out, wearing helmets in construction environments is a deeply ingrained and accepted practice. Also, as I think the proposed removal of the regulations about hard hats and tower cranes will be of little interest to the average member of the public, I suspect that the general media won't be rushing to show much interest in them either. Furthermore, if any journalists do try to generate jeopardy-mongering stories about the removal of the regulations in the face of clear explanations about reducing legislative duplication, etc., they should be challenged as being deliberately mischievous or aspiring candidates for a "wazzock of the week" award! Jane Blunt mentioned COSHH which replaced numerous sets of specific regulations. Can anyone provide information about any problems which arose through the removal of those specific regulations or indeed any other OS&H legislation? p.s. A general plea: Some forum users need to take more care to spell Judith Hackitt's surname correctly. Why? In addition to courtesy to the lady herself, it's quite possible that some forum users who keep seeing the mis-spelt version in various threads could assume that it is the correct one. Though some may regard this plea as a pedantic one, surely professionals in OS&H (and other disciplines) ought to strive for accuracy!
BuzzLightyear  
#9 Posted : 06 July 2012 09:47:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BuzzLightyear

Graham Bullough wrote:
p.s. A general plea: Some forum users need to take more care to spell Judith Hackitt's surname correctly. Why? In addition to courtesy to the lady herself, it's quite possible that some forum users who keep seeing the mis-spelt version in various threads could assume that it is the correct one. Though some may regard this plea as a pedantic one, surely professionals in OS&H (and other disciplines) ought to strive for accuracy!
Oops! If any moderators happen to stumble on this thread can they change the spelling in the subject line please. Thanks! Just a further thought about comparing this to COSHH, it is a good comparison however, I am not sure that the news media and public Zeitgeist had the same vitriol to health and safety at the time. I have to admit, I have not worked in construction for many years - so I am no expert on this. Although, I have noticed around Milton Keynes scaffolders not bothering with hard hats. So, I am not sure that the regulations are ingrained into practice everywhere.
achrn  
#10 Posted : 06 July 2012 12:10:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

BuzzLightyear wrote:
I have to admit, I have not worked in construction for many years - so I am no expert on this. Although, I have noticed around Milton Keynes scaffolders not bothering with hard hats. So, I am not sure that the regulations are ingrained into practice everywhere.
Scaffolders in general have the least compliance with anything (ime). The only people I've ever had to tell to put their hat on (and then to put it on properly) are scaffolders, and there's been several of them. Everyone else wears their hardhat without a second thought, I find.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.