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Sharon Wooller  
#1 Posted : 06 July 2012 09:41:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sharon Wooller

I have had, what I suppose, is a foreseeable question (particularly after the episode on the M6 yesterday) - an employee has asked me if he can use his electric cigarette in his company car and in the office? I have had a look at the information provided on the website for the brand he is using and they quote: the cigarette emits a water vapour and does not have the effect of secondhand smoke, the literature also goes on to quote: as the cigarette does not emit smoke it is not known to be prohibited from use under most laws. From these statements provided by the brand I am assuming that he can - any views?
Merv  
#2 Posted : 06 July 2012 10:07:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Merv

Sharon I think we have had a previous discussion on this thread. Conclusions were, as I remember : 1. there are no tobacco related health issues from these "cigarettes" other than the nicotine content which can already be found in approved patches and gums 2. there may be some health effects from the vaporised carrier fluid. As yet undefined and not quantified. 3. Some organisations ban them as "they might make others envious" or they are too difficult to distinguish from a real cigarette" 4. I tried them and went back to my pipe. Merv
Zyggy  
#3 Posted : 06 July 2012 10:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Sharon, Merv has summed up the previous debate extremely well. Could I also add that allowing such products makes it very difficult to "police" in certain situations, e.g. I work for a very large Premier League Club & smoking was banned from the Stadium well before the legislation came into force. However, with any large crowd, some will always try a way around it & there is a continual battle of wills & the acceptance of such devices will just exacerbate the situation!! Zyggy
Graham Bullough  
#4 Posted : 06 July 2012 10:25:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

At the risk of stating the obvious, I guess that there's now a sudden massive demand by all UK bus and coach operators for signs to display in their vehicles to tell passengers that the established ban on smoking now includes 'electronic cigarettes'.
Gordon. Neil. Alphon  
#5 Posted : 06 July 2012 10:35:17(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Gordon. Neil. Alphon

"For a smoker, the health hazards of continuing to smoke greatly outweigh any potential risks of using nicotine replacement therapy". Chronic effects of using e-cigarettes (NRT), hence this has to be communicated.
redken  
#6 Posted : 06 July 2012 10:38:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken

Yes you can use them but remember that they now carry an enormous risk - the armed police will turn up, make you and your colleagues sit on the ground and point their guns at you!
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 06 July 2012 10:42:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

redken wrote:
Yes you can use them but remember that they now carry an enormous risk - the armed police will turn up, make you and your colleagues sit on the ground and point their guns at you!
Perhaps they should now contain a warning label - Smoking can seriously affect your safety!
alistair  
#8 Posted : 06 July 2012 12:02:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
alistair

Nice one. I can just see the packages now displaying an image of a loaded gun pointing at your head rather than a tar-filled lung or someones teeth affected by smoking!!
achrn  
#9 Posted : 06 July 2012 12:07:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

merv wrote:
1. there are no tobacco related health issues from these "cigarettes" other than the nicotine content which can already be found in approved patches and gums 2. there may be some health effects from the vaporised carrier fluid. As yet undefined and not quantified.
I think it's worth distinguishing that 1 applies to the individual, and 2 applies to their workmates - ie it's not fair to say that there are no health issues to the workmates, who may be exposed to stuff from an electronic cigarette that they would not be exposed to from patches and gums. This is probably what was intended by item 2 - it has not yet been established that they are not harmful to workmates. No-one has asked yet in my workplace, but the answer is going to be no - it may well be a reasonable assumption that the electronic cigarette does the smoker less harm than smoking a real cigarette, but I don't think it's as reasonable that whatever the smoker breathes out is as innocuous as if they weren't smoking anything. Plus, of course, the risk of passive being-shot-by-the-police
Lawlee45239  
#10 Posted : 06 July 2012 12:08:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

redken wrote:
Yes you can use them but remember that they now carry an enormous risk - the armed police will turn up, make you and your colleagues sit on the ground and point their guns at you!
They are lucky it was yesterday and it was sunny, wouldnt have liked being stuck out in todays rain! Good training exercise for the services though.
Merv  
#11 Posted : 07 July 2012 08:03:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Merv

A useful link this morning : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18734753 Have a good one Merv
bluewater  
#12 Posted : 07 July 2012 09:11:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bluewater

I work offshore in the Oil & Gas Industry and the company who owns the oilfield we work on has banned them from being brought ofshore. One of the reasons being that they are simply not intrinsically safe. It would not be to clever to have one in your pocket with the potential to cause a spark (battery power) in an area processing large quantities of hydrocarbons...onshore process plant & refinery personnel beware!
messyshaw  
#13 Posted : 07 July 2012 11:48:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

Graham Bullough wrote:
At the risk of stating the obvious, I guess that there's now a sudden massive demand by all UK bus and coach operators for signs to display in their vehicles to tell passengers that the established ban on smoking now includes 'electronic cigarettes'.
Graham, I fear you may be right, but I hope that this doesn't happen as it wasn't the e-cig that caused the risk to health, it was the naturally (& quite right) anxious state of the public and 999 services during these pre Olympic times & the 7/7 7th anniversary. It would be completely over the top and disappointing to ban the e-cig which is a positive health measure for 1000s of people As far as the response to this incident, I am amazed it was so enormous bearing in mind the source of the alert was a single uncorroborated 999 call. This is not a criticism, just an observation. I'll leave my criticism of the incident to the length of time the passengers were left sitting on the tarmac when the incident was clearly stood down from it's initial high alert status. I noticed whilst watching the live aerial news images, that Police and special forces were entering and leaving the bus in shirtsleeves - absolutely no PPE - indicating that the risk was now around zero, while the passengers were penned in sitting on the motorway for hours more with the news media taking some extraordinarily close up shots of the 'suspects'.
Graham Bullough  
#14 Posted : 08 July 2012 02:20:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

messyshaw – Perhaps you’ve misunderstood my response at #4: It comprised a suggestion that bus and coach operators will be very determined to try and protect their drivers and passengers from circumstances similar to those which occurred last Thursday, and certainly not a call for e-cigs to be banned. From a skim through the responses to the online media reports about the M6 incident, it seemed that quite a number of them argued that e-cigs could be used anywhere because they did not come within the ambit of the law which bans conventional smoking in various settings. However, as others have already pointed out in this thread, allowing people to use e-cigs in situations where conventional smoking is banned would pose various problems. Furthermore, even if there were no law against smoking on coaches and buses, surely it would be reasonable for any operating company to impose its own ban on smoking by passengers for various reasons, e.g. the health and comfort of non-smoking passengers, cleanliness and fire precautions. Though none of us were involved in the M6 incident, I guess that many of us have similar views based on what has been reported about it: The person who was using the e-cig on the coach was allegedly doing so in a furtive manner. If so, this suggests that he/she was aware of the legal ban on smoking on coaches and was either unsure about or thought it also extended to the use of e-cigs. Furthermore, his/her behaviour was apparently suspicious enough to alarm a fellow passenger and prompt them to contact the police by mobile phone. Anyhow, after what the coach driver and passengers subsequently experienced, it’s likely that the e-cig user will desist from using e-cigs on coaches in future! (From personal experience of having been arrested at gunpoint and then detained for over 5 hours quite a number of years ago, I have some inkling of how scary and then frustrating it must have been for the coach passengers.) I share your thoughts about the extent of the response by emergency & security organisations to the 999 call and the extraordinary length of time the passengers had to sit as they did on the tarmac. Possible reasons include the organisations using the circumstances as an impromptu opportunity to practice a co-ordinated large scale response. (This happened on a smaller scale several years ago when the emergency services went "way over the top" in response to a rminor spillage of formalin during a science lesson at a school I used to advise.) Also, in view of 1) the considerable extent to which the media were allowed to film the circumstances and 2) the imminence of the London Olympics, it's tempting to suggest that the incident was used to demonstrate to the public - and especially any aspiring terrorists - that the security and emergency services are ready and well prepared for incidents!
Graham Bullough  
#15 Posted : 09 July 2012 00:23:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Just as an aside, one or two of the online press reports about the M6 incident as it was taking place mentioned that the coach had parked itself on the motorway. Perhaps I read the reports too literally by thinking that journalists were so pre-occupied with what was happening that they had completely overlooked the involvement of a driverless/robotic coach. I might have done the same regarding various media news headings about the newly completed Shard building in London 'being unveiled': Evidently the area of cloth or drape needed must have been huge while the task of covering the building with it would have been formidable!!!! :-)
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