Hi

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice; we use contractors to carry out maintenance on rental properties that our offices manage. We currently ask all our contractors to sign an agreement to say that they're qualified/competent to undertake the work that they're doing and ask to see their certificates etc. We have become aware of an agent being held responsible for the safety of a contractor who came across some asbestos at a property and who wasn't qualified to deal with it. Could anyone help with some wording that we could put into our contractor's agreement to ensure that they do not carry out any work on our behalf that they are not fully qualified/competent to undertake? Is there an 'asbestos' safety body?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Jane

Hi Tony

Thanks for this I will read up on the HSE site; we don't own any of the buildings, we just manage them for landlords - can I clarify, are you saying that we should know if there is asbestos in any of the properties we take on ... ?

Thanks

Jane

Hi Jane

We are just going through the same process, and are ensuring individual contractors are aware of our asbestos surveys/register and accocitated documentation, each contract employee must have asbestos awarness training.

Hope this helps
Regards
David

Hi Jane,
You need to have all your buildings under your control to be surveyed by an approved asbestos contractor who will determine if asbestos is present, they should provide you with a detailed written report with illustrations on three key areas.

1 Any areas suspected of containing ACM (asbestos containing materials)
2 Any areas that were not surveyed due to access restrictions or areas that require an intrusive survey e.g. roofing membranes in order for it be positevely identified
3 Lab results taken from materials suspected of containg ACM's detailing the type of asbestos i.e friability, estimated volume etc.


Also the report will highlight areas containing asbestos on how to manage it should it be positively identifed i.e ACM's are relatively safe if left undisturbed however access to areas containg ACM'sit should be correctly labelled e.g access to lofts, ceiling voids etc.


All the above need to be presented to contractors, surveyors and the alike before any work is undertaken, and like don states asbestos awareness training does not give a contractor the green light to start removing asbestos, it is merely a means of advising a contractor on what to do if they suspect any fabric of a building contains ACM's.


I strongly advise you to action the above before letting any contractors loose on buidings under your control.

Regards,

Damian

Hi everyone

Thanks so much for all the advice; I had a feeling it was not as simple as it would first appear; I’m really trying to clarify the advice I should be giving to our offices. All our offices currently require their maintenance contractors to sign an agreement saying that they will not undertake any work (not just asbestos work) that they are not fully qualified, licensed and competent to carry out – but is this enough? I completely understand that asbestos awareness training does not give any contractor the green light to handle the substance and nor would we want them to – from what I’ve researched it is pretty nasty stuff if not handled correctly. Damian, I find it interesting that you say the tenant has a duty to provide contractors with the information – but how would a tenant know? I am completely prepared to give all staff asbestos awareness training, but I have heard of a case of a letting agent being held responsible for a ‘handyman’ they used being exposed to asbestos (it wasn’t us and as far as I’m aware the agent didn’t know there was asbestos at the property). I don’t want anyone put at risk and I’m pretty sure that not many (if any) property agents would have an asbestos survey done on a property before they take it onto their books …. but should they be?

Thanks again

Jane

The contractors that you take on should be adequately vetted and commissioned at the start of any relationship with you and ongoing thereafter by yourselves - simple statements in various tender/contract docs are not good enough when you get into a court

Vetting should include both document vetting and reality 'on site' vetting but unfortunately this costs money and time so people try to tie each other up in the wording in T&C documents so as each can blame the other if a problem occurs

Jane,

Were are you based, if you are local to Manchester then Iosh are running an Asbestos network event Tuesday 10th July at 6.30pm were a HSE inspector wil be delivering a talk on the new asbestos regs.
In your case it may be very worthwhile attending.

Damian

(3)Where a person has, by virtue of any contract or tenancy, an obligation of any extent in relation to— .
(a)the maintenance or repair of any premises to which this section applies or any means of access thereto or egress therefrom; or .
(b)the safety of or the absence of risks to health arising from plant or substances in any such premises; .
that person shall be treated, for the purposes of subsection (2) above, as being a person who has control of the matters to which his obligation extends.

Am I reading the above correctly, under an agreed tenancy the tenant has overall control not the Landlord

Jane - See my last link, it explains all!!!

@Damian - The regulation is written to allow a landlord to contract out these responsibilities (note: this is unusual in H&S law, to bring it back to original question you cannot contractually sign away section 3 duties!)

These duties could not be handed to a domestic client as the regulation relates to at work. The idea is that when a commercial client takes a long term let they are given full control of the building.

does that make sense???

I've confused myself now, as the HSAWA does indeed relate to commercial properties...

I think the important point - is you are commissioning work in the building, therefore section 3 of The HSAWA kicks in.

I think I was slightly wrong with my interpretation of S4 anyway - all down to contract. But in this case you are contracted to do the work anyway.

Hi Jane

My sympathies, working with ACMs in a domestic scenario is very confusing with the various duties, some of which overlap, whilst others are transferable. Have a read of the attached link - it should answer all your questions.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/se...idance-refurbishment.pdf

Hi Ray

Thanks, this is useful - it appears to have been issued prior to the updated (2012) Control of Asbestos Regulations. It is turning out to be a bit of a nightmare for me, I'm trying to protect everyone, our offices, our landlords, our tenants and our contractors!

This forum is great with so many knowledgeable people on here; I need to think about what I am going to advise our offices to do to manage this effectively.

Thanks everyone.

Jane

Jane

The changes to CAR 2012 were relatively minor and do not affect the HSE guidance provided.