Rank: Forum user
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It is clearly good practice for Safety Policies to be signed and dated.
I've recently been challenged on this and can't find the legal reference to support this. Very probably a case of looking too hard, or being unable to see the wood for the trees.
Can someone gently nudge me in the right direction please?
Thanks
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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That's because there is no legal requirement for your MD to sign the company safety policy. hence no reference to it shall be found, to do so.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Despite the previous, posting by Lawlee - the HSE may suggest its good practice, which I agree with - but not a legal requirement.
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Rank: Forum user
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The signing and dating of the safety policy statement takes ownership of the policy for that specified date by the employer to meet the requirements of HSWA '74, Section 2(3). It should be reviewed periodically to ensure it remains relevant to the undertaking.
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Rank: Forum user
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Your companies document control process will "manage" your version control.
There is no legal requirement to have policies (policy statement - Yes) so naturally there will be no law on signatures/dates etc
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Rank: Super forum user
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I argued this with the MD when implementing a system to HSG65.
HSG65 (p11) states "Effective policies are not simply examples of management paying lip service to improved health and safety performance but a genuine commitment to action"
It's best practice for the policy statement to carry a signature of a high level person to demonstrate top down commitment.
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Rank: Super forum user
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teh boy
Your MDs stance then menas if I am ever to assess the company for some purpose or other I can clearly see that it is not committed to best practice. This means I keep clear of it. Perhaps if you peruse Barclays policies on the web you will note the absence of signatures - so perhaps I am right in my beliefs
Bob
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Do you really mean that if the bit of paper on the wall has a signature on it then that is sufficient to "demonstrate top down commitment", and if it doesn't have a signature that proves that "it is not committed to best practice"?
A bit of paper on a wall (let alone whether it is signed or not) does not prove or demonstrate any such thing, in my opinion. It's nothing but fine words, and it remains nothing but fine words regardless of whether that bit of paper has a signature.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Another vote for signatures indicating ownership of the policy document and its contents.
I've seen too many firms paying for pro-forma documentation systems that promise the earth in terms of H&S management. It is usually patently obvious that the company is not delivering on these duties at shop floor level.
I then explain that policy documents will often be used by the HSE in any prosecution, e.g. your policy states that you do ABC but in reality you did XYZ - how do you explain that? Worth reading the court transcripts of the Euromin fatality (Simon Jones decsd) that was widely covered in the media by the likes of Mark Thomas to see this done in court.
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Rank: Super forum user
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achrn
Agree the paper on its own proves nowt. However whether the MD chooses to sign it, ie. conform to best practice, or not is an indicator of the type and thought patterns of the management. It ios the little things that can show our true values.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Filled with good intentions this year I reviewed the H&S policy statement in March and sent the new version upto the CEO to sign off, which he did, I even got the other directors to have a read of it and they suggested some improvements.
I then forget to post it on the intranet etc and only just remembered this week when of one of our business development people pointed out that they were making bids for work they referring to last years policy. In the mean time did the whole H&S system grind to a halt? Well no, we survived not having this document in place for 3 whole months.
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Rank: Super forum user
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boblewis wrote:achrn
Agree the paper on its own proves nowt. However whether the MD chooses to sign it, ie. conform to best practice, or not is an indicator of the type and thought patterns of the management. It ios the little things that can show our true values.
Bob
Well put!
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Rank: Forum user
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Get the Directors to sign it aswell.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I actually think that the requirement for A Safety Policy Statement has out lived its usefulness. When enacted in 1974 the idea was a company would state their own commitment to health and safety. Now the HSE produce a number of templates you can sign - and I see the same statement produced by national consultant's in different premises where only the signature differs - show commitment to health and safety? Sadly I think not!
Brian
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Rank: Super forum user
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bob howden wrote:
Can someone gently nudge me in the right direction please?
Thanks
Who insures you? As an insurance auditor I look for a policy which is signed and dated at least once every 2 years. There is no legal requirement true, but insurance companies are very influential. And you do not, not never ever ever want to be ticking the "yes I have had insurance refused" box when renewing.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Betta, if an unsigned policy statement indicates a "no quote" or "decline" then I suggest that something stinks in the insurance world.
I am now somewhat shifting opinion on policy statements. They are too often templates that do not represent what actually happens and what the senior management attitude really is. Mere paper statements that mean little.
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This discussion confirms my belief:
insurance companies now dictate what is or is not 'acceptable'. Regardless of what the law says (which is that there is no legal requirement to sign safety policy statement).
As a profession we have been telling it like we would like it to be, and not how it actually is, for years - and look where that has got us.
Realistically, having a signature on a statement is pretty meaningless. If it were required by law would that make it suddenly a better mearurement of commitment? No.
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Rank: Super forum user
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sadlass - insurance does not dictate that much, we are in a very soft market and it would be a very silly insurer who declined to quote just because a policy statement was not signed or some other piece of paperwork was missing.
Like Betta, I'm an assessor for an insurer that specialises in high risk industries. My look at the policy statement will take around 1 minute out of a 2 hour site meeting with the client. It is a minor part.
However, I do like to see it signed but more importantly the date. I've come across construction firms using documents from 1998 so that would suggest they paid a consultant in 98 and did not bother to retain their services. CDM, WAH, noise and vibration regs will have probably escaped their attention as well and the risk would be poor.
If I see a regularly reviewed document with ownership by top level management I can move on to the next part of the survey, happy that I am dealing with a firm that takes such matters seriously.
At the end of the day, why should two construction contractors of similar size and client mix pay the same insurance premium if firm a is jumping through all the hoops with flying colours while firm b is making do with old documents and copy and paste jobs from t'internet? This is why we assess our clients - we want to retain the good firms and the poor ones can take a hike at renewal time.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed. The question seems to have generated more discussion than I had expected. Some very useful comments that echo many of my own thoughts.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Betta Spenden wrote:bob howden wrote:
Can someone gently nudge me in the right direction please?
Thanks
Who insures you? As an insurance auditor I look for a policy which is signed and dated at least once every 2 years. There is no legal requirement true, but insurance companies are very influential. And you do not, not never ever ever want to be ticking the "yes I have had insurance refused" box when renewing.
Wow Betta
It‘s at times like this that I am glad I work for an organisation that does not insure. Paperwork for the sake of paperwork.
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Rank: Super forum user
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NR wrote:Get the Directors to sign it aswell.
All of them? We'll need three times as much wall space for the signatures as for the policy words.
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Rank: Forum user
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We've got 6 signatures on ours!!
I've also got a commitment charter for a sub division that has all the employees signatures on it. It is displayed next to the policy.
Although I do accept your strong argument that paper is expensive and wall space limited.
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