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Clairel  
#41 Posted : 23 July 2012 22:11:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

zimmy wrote:
If you are NOT electrically qualified/trained please keep your well intentioned hands from the keyboards. and if you must do something then refer then to Paul myself or someone who knows what they are talking about. Far too many people here read from a book and have no relevant expertise.
hmmmm, not sure I hundered percent agree with that statement zimmy. I know your statement wasn't directed at me personally but as a non electrically qualified health and safety practitioner who likes to (and is paid to) give my opinion on many subjects I thought I should speak from my own point of view on this one. I am not electrically qualified, I am not a gas safe engineer, I am not an engineer, a farmer, a nurse, a doctor, or indeed a specialist in any field and yet I give advice on a daily basis on matters that cover all those professions. That is the nature of our profession - to be a jack of all trades (even those with specialisms). HOWEVER, I would agree that we all need to know the limits of our 'jack of all trades' knowledge. I stick to the basics and always refer to an expert beyond that. So I'll not keep my well intentioned hands from the keyboard if you don't mind but I will stop at my limit. Thank you and carry on!! ;-)
JJ Prendergast  
#42 Posted : 23 July 2012 22:11:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Zimmy Are you really saying to be an electrician that you need to be Tech IOSH and have the NEBOSH General & Construction certificate? I know quite a few sparks who are very good, but don't have the IOSH tickets. Is this just your opinion or is the opinion of the sparkies professional institution. I rarely comment on electrical issues, as I'm a mechanical engineer - but it never ceases to amaze me how a relatively straightforward PAT/maintenance and inspection regime (or whatever you wish to call it!) attracts so much heated debate. Its quite easy - get a competent person to carry out an adequate test and inspection programme. For many working environments,conditions are not too harsh for electrical equipment. I would concur though that many h&s people have a little bit of knowledge, think they know more than they do, and give awful technical/engineering advice. IOSH tickets are not enough in many cases. I had a heated discussion with someone about stress analysis and material science - clearly they didn't know what they were talking about.
A Kurdziel  
#43 Posted : 24 July 2012 10:03:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

quote=zimmy]To qualify the above before I get banned By qualified I mean someone who is at least a Tech IOSH, Time served electrician, with C&G 2391 in inspection testing and certification of electrical installations, 17th ed wiring regs (BS7671), 2377 'PAT' and if you're really lucky, then C&G 2400 (design etc) Then on top of that distinctions in NEBOSH Gen and Construction. Please don't take electrical advice of anyone less. :-)
And this has what to with PAT testing which is what this thread is about?
Canopener  
#44 Posted : 24 July 2012 13:50:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I have followed this thread with some interest, and it has inevitably taken the usual ‘twists and turns’. But to go right back to the top of the thread “PAT testing – has it really got any easier?” I for one have never really found the issue of the maintenance of portable electrical kit to be a particularly difficult one to grasp. It requires an integrated approach using a VARIETY of different elements that MIGHT include, at different frequencies, depending on the circumstances (risk), formal visual inspections, user checks, pre use checks, and testing etc. Different items in different environments need different approaches, and it is unlikely that any one element in isolation would be suitable in all circumstances. I would tend to agree that the user check is one of the most important checks, but this is only the case if you have confidence that these are actually being carried out. If there is reason to suspect that this doesn’t happen as a matter of routine, then arguably formal visual inspections and/or testing becomes more important. I agree with Claire at #28, in that I really don’t see that much has changed at all. For me, it has always been a risk based decision on what needs to be done, for different types of kit in different situations. There is no doubt in my mind that there are a great many people testing items out there that either don’t need to be tested or at least don’t need to be tested as frequently as they are being. To many organisations, rightly or wrongly, it is something of a ‘comfort blanket’. I have in the past personally contacted Paul (and others) off the forum to ask for his advice, and very grateful I have been as well. However, I also take a little ‘exception’, and I confess I am a little mystified at the posts at #38/39, and agree with Claire at #41 (OMG – that’s the 2nd time that I’ve agreed with Claire!!). Like many, I am a ‘generalist’ practitioner with a lot of years experience under the belt, and am generally capable of giving sound advice over a broad range of issues. If I find myself lacking, then I go where I need to go for help. Like Claire, I am not going to keep my hands off the keyboard if I feel that I have something to add to a conversation. If I am wrong, then I am happy to ‘fess up’ and have done so in the past. I am certainly not going to treat a qualified electrician with Tech IOSH as some kind of demigod!
A Kurdziel  
#45 Posted : 24 July 2012 16:19:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

To answer the original thread I think that what we have decided in our collective wisdom is: 1. There is no need for a blanket requirement to ‘PAT test’ every item once a year 2. The frequency and type of testing should be based on a risks assessment taking into account the type of equipment, it’s age condition and environment it is being used in. 3. For most ordinary items, used in non-aggressive environment such as an office, routine visual checks by the users are more effectible than the bloke coming around with the box of tricks which he plugs and says it’s passed/failed. 4. The bloke with the box of tricks’ is not a substitute for a proper system for managing electrical safety, as he might not fully understanding what he is doing 5. Finally, any policy should be checked against advice from a competent electrical engineer (who may have a variety of qualifications). I am a generalist sort of. ( My background is lab safety especially microbiology, so only fully qualified microbiologists may comment of issues relating to the stuff that comes out of drains or is that going too far)
Zimmy  
#46 Posted : 24 July 2012 18:55:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Zimmy and Paul take a bow :-) Thanks Jon We really do like to help, it's why we are here.
Zimmy  
#47 Posted : 24 July 2012 19:13:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Changed my mind. Forget what I've said. Sorry to have offended. Have fun.
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