Rank: Super forum user
|
My local Council apparently has a ban on attaching brackets to an aluminium lamp post but there's no problem with steel posts. As a result the Community Council hasn't been able to place baskets in a newer housing area as they had planned because all the new lamp posts are aluminium!
Is there any guidance that makes such a distinction? If so, I'd be grateful for a pointer to it.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
An interesting query!
There is a British Standard for lamp standards (EN 40??) so the strength should be the same.
I wonder whether it is a corrosion concern? If the hanging baskets are on a steel bracket, then it would tend to set up an electrolytic cell in which the lamp post would be the anode and would corrode in preference to the steel.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I believe Jane has hit the nail on the head as it were!
It will almost certainly be an electrolytic corrosion concern which will weaken the structural strength of the posts.
So, this time the "Authority" are not playing the H&S card without reason.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
If its a dissimilar metal thing, surely a rubber strip between the 2 metals would suffice.
Hang the baskets up!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Jane et al may well be right. However i don't suggest that you just go ahead and put them up! I suggest that you talk to and work with your local council to find out why and see if there is a mutually agreeable solution. I would think that is likely to be the least confrontational approach and the one most likely to result in you being able to put up the baskets without 'fear' of someone taking them down again.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
If it is dissimilar metals it is relatively easy to arrange galvanic isolation, as others have suggested.
It might be fatigue concern - some people are overly phobic about aluminium and fatigue, and there have been streetlight failures due to fatigue (though I only know of steel or iron ones). However, if it's a newer housing area, presumably with relatively recent posts, the manufacturer should be able to quantify fatigue performance. Some people think that regarding fatigue steel=good and aluminium=bad, but neither one of those is necessarily so.
[Fatigue: Low grade steels exhibit a fatigue plateau - below a certain stress range steel won't fatigue ever. Aluminium does not plateau, it always fatigues to some degree regardless of the smallness of the stress range. This makes some people think fatigue in aluminium is automatically a bigger problem than it is in steel. However, higher performance steels don't necessarily exhibit the plateau, various manufacturing processes or detailing eliminate the plateau, and if properly considered the fact that fatigue damage occurs is just not a problem - there's no practical difference between never fatigue, and fatiguing at a rate that will fail in 10,000 years.]
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Ian - similar concerns when mixing steel and aluminium scaffold components unless only for short duration.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
It’s all ‘good stuff and the problems associated with dissimilar metal corrosion/’galvanic action’ is not insurmountable.
Imwaldra, rather than both you and us continuing to speculate, I would suggest that your best approach would be for you to speak with the appropriate person at the LA involved to try and establish the reasoning behind the ‘ban’ and then try to find a mutually agreeable proposal to overcome it. With the best will in the world, until you have an idea of the reasoning behind the ban, you are unlikely to find the answer here.
let us know how you get on.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Could it just be that the council has a policy about street furniture? Especially if it's in a new development along the lines of "New build does not require hanging baskets"?
Alternatively, and with tongue firmly in cheek - think yourself lucky, one of them new hanging baskets could fall on someone and then there would be trouble unless you can prove they're suitable, regularly inspected, the flower planter bloke is SQEP to climb the ladder/operate the MEWP, has COSHH for the compost - I could go on, and on, and on....... 'Elf 'n' safety donchaknow
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Thanks for your comments. Before posting my query, I had thought about galvanic corrosion and decided that a short section of insulating material should solve that. I also did a web search and came up with nothing - hence the reason for posting, asking if anyone knew of guidance.
As the combined wisdom of Forum users has come up with none, I will now contact the Council - I just wanted to be thoroughly prepared before I did so.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I doubt that it would be very easy to insulate the two metals effectively from one another in the long term. It would have to be organised so that the insulation could not be bridged by moisture, moss, lichens, algae etc, and that the bracket could not pierce the insulation.
Galvanic corrosion caused an immense amount of damage to the Statue of Liberty (iron and copper) despite the builders having put insulation material between the two metals.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
On the other hand it should be possible to design a suitable bracket from a polymer and design it so that the metal fixings for that could not be connected by a conducting path (moisture etc) to the lamp standard.
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Anyone considered this might not be a H&S issue but a warranty issue on the new lamp posts?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Jane Blunt wrote:I doubt that it would be very easy to insulate the two metals effectively from one another in the long term. It would have to be organised so that the insulation could not be bridged by moisture, moss, lichens, algae etc, and that the bracket could not pierce the insulation.
Jane In the fifties many ships were built of steel with aluminium superstructures to save weight high in the structure. One such ship I sailed on was Katsina Palm in about 1972, ship was then some 15 years old. Accordingly there was a dissimilar metals interface around the whole superstructure. Of course, it is never wet at sea .... !!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Make the brackets from aluminium.
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.