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imwaldra  
#1 Posted : 13 August 2012 19:35:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

My local Council apparently has a ban on attaching brackets to an aluminium lamp post but there's no problem with steel posts. As a result the Community Council hasn't been able to place baskets in a newer housing area as they had planned because all the new lamp posts are aluminium!

Is there any guidance that makes such a distinction? If so, I'd be grateful for a pointer to it.
Jane Blunt  
#2 Posted : 13 August 2012 19:47:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

An interesting query!

There is a British Standard for lamp standards (EN 40??) so the strength should be the same.

I wonder whether it is a corrosion concern? If the hanging baskets are on a steel bracket, then it would tend to set up an electrolytic cell in which the lamp post would be the anode and would corrode in preference to the steel.
paul.skyrme  
#3 Posted : 13 August 2012 21:23:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

I believe Jane has hit the nail on the head as it were!

It will almost certainly be an electrolytic corrosion concern which will weaken the structural strength of the posts.

So, this time the "Authority" are not playing the H&S card without reason.
tony.  
#4 Posted : 13 August 2012 21:37:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tony.

If its a dissimilar metal thing, surely a rubber strip between the 2 metals would suffice.

Hang the baskets up!
Canopener  
#5 Posted : 14 August 2012 07:31:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Jane et al may well be right. However i don't suggest that you just go ahead and put them up! I suggest that you talk to and work with your local council to find out why and see if there is a mutually agreeable solution. I would think that is likely to be the least confrontational approach and the one most likely to result in you being able to put up the baskets without 'fear' of someone taking them down again.
achrn  
#6 Posted : 14 August 2012 09:29:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

If it is dissimilar metals it is relatively easy to arrange galvanic isolation, as others have suggested.

It might be fatigue concern - some people are overly phobic about aluminium and fatigue, and there have been streetlight failures due to fatigue (though I only know of steel or iron ones). However, if it's a newer housing area, presumably with relatively recent posts, the manufacturer should be able to quantify fatigue performance. Some people think that regarding fatigue steel=good and aluminium=bad, but neither one of those is necessarily so.

[Fatigue: Low grade steels exhibit a fatigue plateau - below a certain stress range steel won't fatigue ever. Aluminium does not plateau, it always fatigues to some degree regardless of the smallness of the stress range. This makes some people think fatigue in aluminium is automatically a bigger problem than it is in steel. However, higher performance steels don't necessarily exhibit the plateau, various manufacturing processes or detailing eliminate the plateau, and if properly considered the fact that fatigue damage occurs is just not a problem - there's no practical difference between never fatigue, and fatiguing at a rate that will fail in 10,000 years.]
peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 14 August 2012 12:47:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Ian - similar concerns when mixing steel and aluminium scaffold components unless only for short duration.
Canopener  
#8 Posted : 14 August 2012 13:43:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

It’s all ‘good stuff and the problems associated with dissimilar metal corrosion/’galvanic action’ is not insurmountable.

Imwaldra, rather than both you and us continuing to speculate, I would suggest that your best approach would be for you to speak with the appropriate person at the LA involved to try and establish the reasoning behind the ‘ban’ and then try to find a mutually agreeable proposal to overcome it. With the best will in the world, until you have an idea of the reasoning behind the ban, you are unlikely to find the answer here.

let us know how you get on.
ExDeeps  
#9 Posted : 14 August 2012 14:05:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Could it just be that the council has a policy about street furniture? Especially if it's in a new development along the lines of "New build does not require hanging baskets"?

Alternatively, and with tongue firmly in cheek - think yourself lucky, one of them new hanging baskets could fall on someone and then there would be trouble unless you can prove they're suitable, regularly inspected, the flower planter bloke is SQEP to climb the ladder/operate the MEWP, has COSHH for the compost - I could go on, and on, and on....... 'Elf 'n' safety donchaknow
imwaldra  
#10 Posted : 15 August 2012 10:50:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

Thanks for your comments. Before posting my query, I had thought about galvanic corrosion and decided that a short section of insulating material should solve that. I also did a web search and came up with nothing - hence the reason for posting, asking if anyone knew of guidance.

As the combined wisdom of Forum users has come up with none, I will now contact the Council - I just wanted to be thoroughly prepared before I did so.
Jane Blunt  
#11 Posted : 15 August 2012 11:04:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I doubt that it would be very easy to insulate the two metals effectively from one another in the long term. It would have to be organised so that the insulation could not be bridged by moisture, moss, lichens, algae etc, and that the bracket could not pierce the insulation.

Galvanic corrosion caused an immense amount of damage to the Statue of Liberty (iron and copper) despite the builders having put insulation material between the two metals.
Jane Blunt  
#12 Posted : 15 August 2012 11:05:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

On the other hand it should be possible to design a suitable bracket from a polymer and design it so that the metal fixings for that could not be connected by a conducting path (moisture etc) to the lamp standard.
Ferguson38303  
#13 Posted : 15 August 2012 11:15:59(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ferguson38303

Anyone considered this might not be a H&S issue but a warranty issue on the new lamp posts?
colinreeves  
#14 Posted : 15 August 2012 13:46:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

Jane Blunt wrote:
I doubt that it would be very easy to insulate the two metals effectively from one another in the long term. It would have to be organised so that the insulation could not be bridged by moisture, moss, lichens, algae etc, and that the bracket could not pierce the insulation.


Jane

In the fifties many ships were built of steel with aluminium superstructures to save weight high in the structure. One such ship I sailed on was Katsina Palm in about 1972, ship was then some 15 years old.

Accordingly there was a dissimilar metals interface around the whole superstructure. Of course, it is never wet at sea .... !!
chris42  
#15 Posted : 15 August 2012 14:06:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Make the brackets from aluminium.
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