A client is about to introduce a new process where different employees will be using the same tools but some of the employees are concerned about hygiene as one of the crew does not wash his hands after going to the toilet. He is being intransigent so is this a well-founded health concern or is it just an HR issue?

LB

Has he learning difficulties?

Put a formal RA regarding toilet cleanliness and if this don't help I respectfully suggest that the other workers refuse to work with him until the matter is resolved

If the person refuses to follow the this RA then remove the person from the team. No one wants to, or should have to, work with clowns like this.

Make him or all wear gloves (this fool is a major risk to fellow employees.

Have individual tool kits?

For myself and the people I work with we'd have a gentle word :-)

That makes sense Chris. Prob solved

Before I comment I want to make it clear that I do wash my hands on every visit to the gents.

I honestly get where you are coming from but I have to say when I worked on construction sites hardly anyone bothered washing their hands after going to the toilet, there is a good chance they cleaned them before hand though.
We used to share tools especially as we worked with both Imperial and Metric sizes and it was never an issue, in the winter it was too cold for any germs to survive!

Just walk into any major pub chain toilets that sell cheap beer look at the client's and with your hand on your heart guess how many of them washed their hands, I would guess not many!

I did not mean to imply in my posting that one should ignore the problem. My posting merely cautioned against overreacting. What I was suggesting did not exclude involving HR in the problem. I would thoroughly recommend that, but it is important to try to prevent what I call 'bugophobia' a la USA, where the attitude is sometimes that all bugs are dangerous and we should try to create a bacteria free world!

I do worry sometimes about some of the publicity/advertising about bacteria that I see on television that create the impression that all bacteria are bad.

Chris

In echo of sean's response, I've noticed over the years that a fair proportion of men using toilet facilities in pubs, motorway service stations, workplaces, etc., don't bother to wash their hands. Don't ask me for any breakdown regarding users of urinals and WCs because my comment is based purely on fleeting casual observations. Nevertheless, it reinforces my observance of the unwritten advice against taking peanuts, crisps and similar comestibles from bowls for customers in pubs and similar establishments!

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if any experts have carried out any research to 1) establish what proportion of men do wash their hands after using urinals and WCs (modern technology should enable this to be done with due regard for privacy and not identifying individuals), and 2) more importantly, if infections can be transmitted to others via peanut bowls, shared work equipment, etc?

Like Sean I instinctively wash my hands after every toilet visit, presumably because it was a basic habit inculcated into me by my mum from when I was very young. If a significant proportion of men don't bother with hand washing, this could be because their mums either didn't bother to train their sons or check that their sons heeded their advice - or (as suggested in other recent threads on this forum) perhaps they lost their mums at an early age! Furthermore, I'll bother to wash my hands before using toilet facilities if I think they're sufficiently grubby. In relation to people who work with irritant or other hazardous substances or infectious agents, it could be argued that it's even more important for them to wash their hands before using toilet facilities than afterwards!

If you are that concerned about people not wahing their hands how come you don't wash your hands before you go the toilet after all you have just touched the door handle and everything else and then you are goin to have to touch yourself. What about the hygiene there.

I am not talking about when you are in work but also in the pub that sells cheap ale. We have to walk around everyday, touching handrails, doorhandles, we will readily shake hands and how many of us think 'I wonder were there hands have been' Just deal with the issue, talk to him and tell him, would you ignore it if he smelled strongly. As for your staff they need to look at things realistically and not judge he is the one they know about.

I'm all for a tactful approach to it.

I'm quite happy working away at life etc Ignorance is bliss as they (or us) say But would I knowingly want to handle something from someone, male or female, who I know has been well.. you get my drift. Not me mates.

quote=Graham Bullough]Out of curiosity, does anyone know if any experts have carried out any research to 1) establish what proportion of men do wash their hands after using urinals and WCs (modern technology should enable this to be done with due regard for privacy and not identifying individuals), and 2) more importantly, if infections can be transmitted to others via peanut bowls, shared work equipment, etc?

There also appears to be or the potential for bullying. Is this a typical management response to look at one issue and ignore the rest. If they continue to refuse to use tools after explain that mobile phones even the owners phone has more germs than most things. Imagine you handle money, use door handles, handrails etc, you then use your phone and put it against your face, very close to the mouth. My god were all doomed. Disciplinary action would stop the bullying of this person, and a sensitive approach to them regarding hygiene may reduce it happening again.

I'm beginning to understand why this profession is so poorly thought of

I have similar experiences to this; I worked for a water utilities company on the wastewater side of things (lucky me). Attending a Manual Handling course the instructor used the equipment in my van for lifting excercises, however some of the guys worked on clean water and refused to touch any of my kit for fear of cross contamination, and likewise wouldn't allow me to touch their kit. It even came to the point where we decided to lift a manhole cover (neutral territory) and the cleanwater guys wouldn't even touch the manhole keys (gloved or not!)
It all ended up with managers being contacted with complaints because they had allowed dirty and clean water ops to meet on the same training course! Overkill? absolutely!

DOH!

I was meant to add after Ian's second comment - snap.... But i have to wait 22 seconds now... :(

Never ever heard of anyone "catching" anything from handling tools.

Clairel has got this correct.

Jon

Try flu, the common cold, tummy trouble..all passed on by contact mainly by handling items that people have handled after snotting etc

Really? Am I not a real man because I do not do manual labour John M?

Messy dear boy, I was merely reporting the words and advice given by the tutor of a training course which I attended yesterday. I was not expecting that those who use tools listed above wash their hands, and I imagine that this was never part of their training. But should it not be something that should be thought about? Is it not obvious that if you use tools connecting pipes on a dirty water system then immediately use the same tools connecting pipes on a potable water system, that there will be a good possibility for cross contamination if the tools are not washed between those two jobs? It's obvious for those who go between patients in hospitals, should it not be similarly important if you are the one maintaining the pipes which carry their drinking water?

Just stating the position, as it was stated to me. I do not work on such systems but my mind is not so closed as to reject a new idea just because I have never done it that way before.

Kate has nailed it ( I really hate that term, reminds of white teeth and fake tan)

Scaffolders - the last scaff to handle this tube did not wash his hands. Imagine it!

Scaffs get flu but I suspect not from handling a tube that their post pee non wasing of hands colleague has passed to him.

Jon

I think I've caught a virus from reading some of this ...

Last I noticed was a saff bloke wearing safety gloves.

Guys, if you want to handle someone's snot, poo, naughty bits go right ahead and enjoy the flavors but please excuse me if I puke,

My point was about cross contamination of a potable water pipe system, not of one plumber giving a couple of germs to another. It is the potential contamination of the drinking water of hundreds and perhaps thousands of people I was referring to, not just one person who then handles the work tools of another. The course I attended was to do with legionella, but there are many water bourne bacteria which cause serious illness/death and which could be a result of poor hygiene and using tools across different types of service, dirty to clean.