None taken Zimmy......probably didnt put my point across as well as intended TBH

Hopefully thats not why you ended up with the sore nailless big toe Zimmy; trigger finger mishap :-)

Am just having a peek at the forum during my lunch break from a project and seen that the course of this thread has digressed somewhat. However, as I sometimes introduce deviations myself on this forum I can’t complain too much. Anyhow, in a bid to get back to the main gist of this thread, I’ll pose a related question: If the OS&H profession is held - or perceived to be held - in poor regard by some/many people, especially senior politicians, journalists and well-known people on TV (i.e. either powerful and/or influential) what are we as individuals and collectively (e.g. through IOSH channels) doing about it? Also, can more be done by us and by what means? Bearing in mind that TV is a extremely influential medium, here's a thought regarding the final question above. Though many occupations and organisations have been the subject of TV documentaries, it seems odd that OS&H professionals and their work have not. I exclude "The Fun Police" aired some time ago from this assertion because I recall that it was something of a "dogs dinner" in its coverage, e.g. included environmental health work, and also in its approach. Surely there's scope for an 'OS&H positive' series featuring OS&H professionals working in different industry/organisation sectors. Where pertinent, it could include how they and their employers/clients prevent members of the public from being harmed by work activities!

I do use t'interweb though, and there's an interesting myth busting piece & HSE on the BBC New site, John

Also, can more be done by us and by what means? For starters refrain from non evidenced highly spurious claims of saving lives. Jon

Graham, I fear that any attempt to legitimise h&s by showing it in a better light is doomed to failure - it is just not interesting enough for mainstream TV viewers. Instead, there may be an opportunity to reflect on past tragic events and disasters (eg Bradford Fire, Marchioness, Clapham Junction, King Cross fire, Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing, etc) and to highlight the control measures that have been introduced since, both industry and regulatory, to prevent these tragic incidents from reoccurring. I want to be the assistant editor...;-)

Are you married?

Claire Unlike the Mods I have no issue with threads deviating from the original topic - that's life. I do have an issue with petty arguments which show our industry in a poor light which have nothing to do with the original topic. However, I never mentioned anyone by name, not even you...

Just wondering how you fit in all the expensive hobbies..............it all comes back to money!!!

OK. Sorry if I caused any upset. I'll get my coat.

Back to the OP - In general I dont think the OS&H profession is held in poor regard. Some people who I dont take very seriously might be of a negative view, and I am very aware that some practitioners are a little 'over-keen' but nobody with any common sense and knowledge of real life takes a dim view. I work in a higher risk industry so it isnt a difficult sales job for me, and most people I come into contact with know that it is uninformed junior/middle managers (not H&S) that give it a bad name. The odd time I meet someone with a negative view I find it really easy to put them on the right track. The stuff on the BBC today confirms for me that many, many people know the difference between real H&S, and jobsworth's taking liberties. One area of risk I guess - as an industry we do need to keep an eye-out for overkeen amateurs, and charlatans (such as electrical firms overstating PAT requirements) that might damage 'Brand H&S'....

I'm simply not into all the negativity about H&S. Many people on this site and contributors to this thread appear to be quite parochial about our 'profession'. We all should extend our vision from beyond our own sphere of existence and observe the unprecedented improvement in working conditions within the UK during the last 40 years. 25 years ago when I started out in the motor industry your sexuality was in question of you wore a mask when spraying (isocyanate content to boot) - Not any more. My father died with an oxygen bottle at his bedside from 46 years down a pit - No effective RPE provided until the death of the industry. Our 'profession' is still in its infancy, the public and media know that things are moving in the right direction, they just like to have a moan now and then - leave them to it. In context to how 'they' have attacked the banks, 'we' are a non-entity to the press. The HS profession will continue to mature and lessons will be learned from mistake made, as in any developing industry - We not only try to make work safer, we drive industry and the economy forward. Give it time, build for the future - maintain positivity.

Hi Clairel - I usually agree with the vast majority of what you state on this forum but just wanted to point out in your response re: #93 - Teachers...self important gits (we need long holidays because we work harder than anyone else......). I trained to be a teacher. They don't work harder at all. My son is a Deputy Headmaster & before he became a teacher I believed 'they' had excellent holidays etc. Well in the last few years that has, in our experience, become a total myth. He leaves home at 7.00am each morning and is NEVER home before 6.30pm. Now, during the summer holiday break he returned yesterday from one weeks holiday, prior to this he was working, yes working, and in school most of the days. My wife called him this morning to see if we could call over to see him our daughter-in-law and our grandson, his response..... "could you make it next weekend as I've got a load of work to do as a result of the GCSE exam results......". I don't know when you trained as a teacher but 'we' would not agree with your statement. As to the point of the thread about OS&H being held in poor regard, well, I have found it depends on what 'you' actually do and in what sector / industry. Years ago I wouldn't admit to what I 'did'. However, in the last eight years I have found a complete turnaround in people’s attitude to what I 'do' since I got involved in sport and sport stadia. Even to the point where at my wife's place of work last week a colleague was even heard to state in an excited tone..... " did you know that so and so's husband works on....". So, perhaps sport and sport stadia are seen as 'sexier'....? Personally, I love the positive vibes and in turn try to promote that regardless of the industry 'all' in H&S are trying to 'stop the hurt'. Now that is a job for someone.................!! Regards

Did I say he works long hours? No, he works hard like a lot of other people in the UK/World and does it by choice and loves it. I merely made a statement that depicts he like many others, don't have it 'cushy'. Life is about making choices, if your neighbours have it better, then good luck to them. If you have to work evenings, weekends, whatever, to meet deadlines, then just do it or change your life. Yes, I to like your husband had similar issues - whereupon when my wife and I were on holiday by a pool, she sent my mobile for a swim - hhhmmmmm - change of lifestyle required I thought, so I did - perhaps your husband needs to do the same, as no one is indispensable no matter what he/she is or does. Don't get mad - just do something about it and if others have got what you perceive as better – then please don’t downgrade them - that’s life.

Well you obviously don't read the same forums as I do. Lots of teachers on them and lots of moaning and belittling. It's actually the reason I hold my opinion of teachers, the fact that I get so sick of them saying that they deserve their long holidays because they work so much harder than everyone else. That's what is nonsense. I'm not saying they have it cushy just that they don't work harder than everyone else and therefore they don't deserve much longer holidays (at the the taxpayers expense). If they didn't keep saying it then it wouldn't irritate me and lots of other people. And I'm not moaning about the hours I do, nor that my husband does. Compared to some people we have it easy.

Forums are not generally indicative of the relevant industry - they tend to attract egocentric windbags with too much time on their hands. Have a nice day and please try to enjoy your work, it's worthwhile you know...

...errrr...referring to yourself as well then Garfield (being as you're on this forum too!!!) ;-) And I'm not referring to professional forums but to other forums, where strangely you are allowed 'off topic' threads! (.....are the powers that be listening to that dig?????)

garfield esq #112 Like it ;-)

I am not pure SHE, I'm the Safety Engineer for my company (Aircraft maintenance and modification) My background is in aircraft engineering (30+ years)I don't have the breadth of experience that some of you people have, but i sometimes feel that the content of this forum is just an opportunity for people to snipe at others, some of the threads here defy logic and are unhealthy

I thought this was about if OS&H profession is held in poor regard? I don't think it is, I think a lot of people mis understand what H&S is and how to incorporate it into practical everyday solutions to prevent harm, so they ignore it or use it to help them stop certain activities, even walking on the streets of Liverpool at Mathew Street if you listen to the councillor on one of the reasons why it was postponed, or put umberellas up at concerts. Of course there are those who will continue regardless and then when something happens will blame everyone else. I work my hours as I am not a voluntary worker or if I do work over I claim it. I don't moan about it I just get on with it. No-one phones me on holiday because I leave my phone at home and use the land line answer phone to check who has just rang. As for teachers best of luck to them, I don't think they work hard but must be frustrating, and of course depends on the area you work in.