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Martin#1  
#1 Posted : 23 August 2012 11:18:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin#1

We have an employee who has had an operation on her wrist, she is now complaining that she is in pain when she is using her mouse, we've bought her another mouse and she is still complaining about pain. Is there anything else I can do to help her? My concern is that she'll be signed off work sick by her Doctor if the pain continues
Terry556  
#2 Posted : 23 August 2012 11:28:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Terry556

Have you done a DSE assessment, and ask the employee to do a self assessment DSE questionnaire, then see what the problems are, then put actions in place, if all fails pass the employee onto occupational health for an assessment, or offer other work
jwk  
#3 Posted : 23 August 2012 11:32:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

What's she using a mouse for? Many, if not all operations in, say, MS Office, can be performed using keyboard shortcuts, John
Martin#1  
#4 Posted : 23 August 2012 11:36:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin#1

quote=terry556]Have you done a DSE assessment, and ask the employee to do a self assessment DSE questionnaire, then see what the problems are, then put actions in place, if all fails pass the employee onto occupational health for an assessment, or offer other work
Yes a DSE assessment has been completed which highlighted the issue with the mouse, we've replaced the mouse but the problem is still there. When you say pass the employee onto occupational health for an assessment would this involve having someone else come in and carry out a more detailed and robust assessment and hopefully give some more options on how to reduce/eliminate the pain? Offering her other work is not really an option I'm afraid.
safetyamateur  
#5 Posted : 23 August 2012 11:44:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

jwk's right. Replacing the mouse won't make any significant difference; the same hand movements will be necessary. Much better to change the movement by using keystrokes instead.
Kate  
#6 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:09:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I agree, keyboard shortcuts are the way. Not everyone knows these though so providing a list of them would be helpful. They might seem slow to begin with, but once you know them, they are actually quicker to use. It's just a case of getting to know them.
Safety Smurf  
#7 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:14:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Have you considered a joystick? There are specialist versions available which perform the function of a mouse. These avoid the need to put any twist in the wrist.
Canopener  
#8 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:17:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

If she has had an operation on her wrist isn’t it likely that she might be suffering from some pain anyway? i.e. is she applying pressure to the wound site? Is the pain to be expected? It would be useful to know if the operation was for a WRULD e.g. CT release. Is it the wrist movement or the finger movement etc. Briefly, and on the basis of the limited information provided you could consider: WS assessment or review to identify causative issues (if any) Wrist rest? Use of keyboard short cuts Alternative pointing devices (ball mouse, upright mouse, pen?) Increased activity breaks during recovery period (if the operation itself is cause of the pain) And as strange as it might sound, use the mouse with the other hand during the rehabilitation period and gradually increase the use over a period of time to see if this helps. I have done this in the past and have even had 2 mouse’s (or are they mice?) connected so that swapping is easier. Work with the Dr, if he/she is happy to sign the person off they should (or am I being too hopeful?) be just as happy to work with you to seek a solution as well hope that helps
A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:43:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What mouse did she have and what did you replace it with. Mice come in all shapes and sizes. Personally I like the Microsoft mice. Not a special ergonomic design but it fits my hand well. There are other devices such as tracker balls and glide points and hand held devices (But the really good Perific Mouse has not been seen for three years-sob) Of course you should discourage excessive mouse use. For all standard Microsoft packages there is a short-cut key that can mimic anything a mouse does. Unfortunately it takes time to learn these and some people (like me) never get the hang of it. Is she doing too much DSE work? Does she take sufficient breaks (5 minutes every 45 minutes or more if she is having problems)? If you want to splash out and you really need her to keep her job go for voice activated software. Options are endless.
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:45:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I went for my lunch and CanOpener stole my thunder. Everything he said.
Zimmy  
#11 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:48:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Has a switch to opposite hand operation. I did after a mountain bike crash. Only took a few hours to used to using left hand.
chris42  
#12 Posted : 23 August 2012 12:54:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Ok first to acknowledge everyone is different. I have had operations on both wrists for carpel tunnel, following the operations I found that my arms between wrist and elbow and my elbow were very sensitive to pressure, even the weight of my own arm. So resting my arm / elbow on anything including the squishy arm rest of my 3 piece suit seemed to make my fingers go a bit numb and my wrist ache. I found that when using my computer at home which is on an office type table, that my arm rested on the edge of the table and caused me problems. The solution was to fold a towel and put on the edge of the table, I also invested in some wrist rests (technically I don’t think you are supposed to lean on them, but everyone does). I tried several types before finding the ones that are gel filled and shaped like a ying yang shape stretched out, worked best ( don’t think I can say the make on here). This was due to them being a little bit softer and has a natural grove due to the shape that allowed the skin to breath a bit better. I bought both the keyboard and mouse mat versions ( I even bought the exact same ones with my own money for home). They were not expensive less than £20 the two a few years ago ( just checked and actually less than £15 if you shop around) the model seems to be “duo mouse wrist rest wave”. I know lots of previous posts have discussed this issue and a lot don’t think much of wrist rests, but it definitely worked for me. I don’t disagree with the above posters and a more detailed assessment may be required, but this is a cheap enough test. If you just observe the person working you may be able to see if she is resting on the desk edge. By the way I use the normal standard mouse with centre scroll wheel, and is perfectly fine for me. Just a thought, in an attempt to be helpful.
KieranD  
#13 Posted : 23 August 2012 13:03:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Martin~! From the (very limited) information you have given, the trickiest challenges you may face are managing the employee's feelings appropriately, and settting appropriate boundaries to ensure the issue doesn't escalate into, at worst, constructive dismissal (i.e. the job is perceived as so impossible) that the employee can legitimately persuade a court you haven't managed her condition and the work situation 'as far as reasonably practicable'. Unless you're experienced as a counsellor, HR Practitioner (up to date on employment and safety law) and ergonomist as well as a good safety practitioner (of which there is no reason to doubt!), may I respectfully encourage you to put the matter in the hands of someone who is?
John J  
#14 Posted : 23 August 2012 13:11:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Martin, try a track ball mouse
Irwin43241  
#15 Posted : 23 August 2012 14:28:54(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Occupational Health is my suggestion.
decimomal  
#16 Posted : 23 August 2012 14:32:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

zimmy wrote:
Has a switch to opposite hand operation. I did after a mountain bike crash. Only took a few hours to used to using left hand.
I broke my right shoulder at the beginning of the year and had to resprt to using the mouse left handed. My shoulder has recovered and I am still using the mouse left handed.
jwk  
#17 Posted : 23 August 2012 14:39:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

There are some good suggestions here. First try eliminating the risk at source; get rid of the mouse. Either by use of key-strokes or, if it's an extreme problem, voice activated software. If neither of these is possible or acceptable, then try alternative pointing devices; ergo mice, vertical mice (it's the hand that's vertical), joysticks, trackpads and so on. If nothing works it's occy health and/or re-deployment, John
Martin#1  
#18 Posted : 23 August 2012 16:07:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin#1

Thanks everyone for all the help, have spoken to the person involved and our HR manager and have all the details now. Between us we've come up with a few possible solutions and things that we are going to try. Thanks again for all the help and pointers its much appreciated Martin
Tigers  
#19 Posted : 23 August 2012 16:14:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

Three small points following a course I recently completed with a major DSE supply company who also deliver training. Two are free and the second is under £10. Using these three methods actually have reduced the DSE problems here. 1. Invite the person to refresher training and allow them to see how to actually set up their workstation along with others trainees realise that we are all not the same and the desk set up correctly will reduce pain and actually allow them to get home more refreshed. This should include measuring the size of mouse to fit a smaller hand etc. The relationship between the height of screen and related aches, the distance of equipment away from the body also causes fatigue. 2. The 20/20 rule not for all you cricket lovers but 20 seconds from the desk each 20 minutes allows the reduction in Lactic acid and allows the eyes to recuperate quicker 3. Now the expensive adaptation the "Mouse Bean" - a small pillow that is attached to the mouse that keeps the wrist straight and supported all for under £10.
A Kurdziel  
#20 Posted : 23 August 2012 16:24:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Some people do not like to issue wrist rests like the "mouse bean". personally I won't use one but a lot of our staff swear by them. What are the objections to wrist rests?
jez  
#21 Posted : 23 August 2012 16:52:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jez

Hi, The main problem was stated by Chris at #12 – you shouldn’t rest on the wrist rests(!) when operating the mouse. This effectively requires you to move the mouse using only the muscles in your wrist (side to side skating of the mouse and picking it up to move up and down), increasing the strain on the muscles, tendons and nerves running through a very small aperture (carpal tunnel, etc). Ideally you should operate the mouse by moving your arm – driving the movement from your shoulder, keeping your wrist in as neutral a position as you can and your elbow close to your side. ‘Floating’ mouse rests (like the bean or the PUK) move with the mouse, allowing the movement to come from the shoulder muscles and can also relieve wrist flexion. The trade off (as ever there is one) is that they can increase pressure on the internal aspect of the wrist.
Tigers  
#22 Posted : 24 August 2012 10:21:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

Hi, We offer a catalogue of adaptations but there has bean a run on the mouse bean. (See what I did then BEAN - note must stop listening to Steve Wright). But the most effective is instruction and training. We send an annual on line questionnaire to all those with an email address within the Authority - then hound them to complete, once they do and state they are having problems we pounce on them to attend training.
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