Yes in more general terms. We should be careful when we get all defensive about H&S. Sometimes it’s obvious that someone is using H&S as an excuse other times we H&S professionals start saying “Well it’s not in any regulation, so it’s not H&S!” forgetting any sort of general duty and common sense. A muddy field with hundreds (thousands?) of people camping on it can quickly become an impassable morass. People can’t get on or off , including the emergency services. You can’t get things like toilet cleaning crews on. It soon becomes unviable. Further more you will always find a small number of idiots who will try to make it worse with the risk of vehicles colliding or driving over tents etc. No there comes a point when you have to give up and say let’s go home.

They also cancelled the second (last) day of the Mathew Street Festival in Liverpool. Bands due to play in bars/pubs were fine but all the stages were cancelled mid morning yesterday due to expected weather conditions leading to Health & Safety issues. Can understand them cancelling both if situation wasn't due to get better. Sods law that in Liverpool yesterday the wind barely got up and it didn't rain too much so probably Mathew St Fest could have gone ahead. Mind it was nice and quiet where i live for a change...

I too was at Download and saw people in wheelchairs sliding down the slope, hitting people from behind, while they were trying to get to the viewing platform. One guy got knocked over completely by one of the motorised chairs- there was just no grip at all. My heart went out to the woman in the chair, she was mortified. I don't think the platform was closed at any point. I saw about half a dozen people being carried to the first aid stations after slipping in the mud- all lower leg injuries. The whole site was a bit on the "muddy" side. Credit to the organisers- I think they did a good job. Andy

Clairel makes an excellent point. When a phrase becomes associated in peoples' minds with a certain reaction, people stop paying attention to the words which make up the phrase. "Safety reasons" makes people think the festival was closed for... safety reasons. "Health & Safety reasons" makes people think it was closed by someone with a clipboard and elbow patches, unfortunately. Reclaiming this is hard. Another example is the move (twenty years ago or so) to describe people who needed additional support with life as having "special needs". I liked this, since it emphasises that we're all unique, including those with disabilities, and all most of us should be doing is focussing on what those "needs" are. I realised I was naively hopeful when I heard a class teacher describing her group to another teacher as "a bit special needsy". People just use the term as a replacement for the old "handicapped" now. So yeah, Safety reasons, if that's what they were - it's clearer and deals with the issues, not the policy behind them, which no-one cares about when they're wading through mud.

There's an unfortunate capitalisation ("Health and Safety") within the text of the referenced article, which will prompt visions of clipboards and elbow patches for some. As Clairel rightly says, the "health" element seems entirely spurious. Presumably there's no overflowing sewage issue. The event is cancelled because of the weather, flooding and mud. The safety issues arising are surely obvious to a 3 year old. Is there any justification in weaving the old 'health and safety' excuse into this? I think not. On the subject of health issues and large outdoor festivals: Portable toilets. Need I say more?

yep - i agree.

quote=Invictus] My son was at Download and loved every minute of it, couldn't sleep in the tent the last night as it was under mud, so came back with no tent, sleeping bag or any of the few clothes he took with him, covered in mud and a big smile. Then again he's only 17, maybe that's why we have to protect the young. When we were kids covered in mud my dad always said 'it could be worse they could be sick in bed'.

I also braved Download again this year and it was the worst I have ever seen it. Luckily we got there just before the rain started (and carried on for 4 days, followed by some high winds). Also left tent and most things there this year. But its all part of the fun of camping, although we did leave on the Sunday this year. The car park's were pretty bad with 2-3 hour queues getting in and out at peak times due to the mud. The organisers did try by putting down bales of hay, digging small trenches so allow for rain run off and sludge gulpers to get rid of the rivers of mud, alas it didn't help and a lot of the stewards were next to useless, but then that's nothing new.

This link provides a pretty good explaination of the events for creamfields. http://www.creamfields.com/ . While the phrase 'health and safety reasons' rings alarm bells, in this case it is probably true when you have to consider the welfare and health of 50,000 people as well as their safety. It seems to me that a sensible decision was taken and executed under difficult circumstances and that they had a number of plans in place that need organisation of resources to implement.

I did hear that the tents make their way to charitable organisations. A friend of mine left her tent; "I'm never going to use the thing- I'm never going camping again!!!!" It was a new tent- one careful owner- used once. If the organisers do donate them its a feather in their cap. Andy

The options for recycling tents that have been abandoned are extremely limited. At Glastonbury the local scout group used to come in and try to salvage what they could for charities (Oxfam, Christian Aid, Save the Children etc) but most of it was too damaged or too poor quality. The disposable style tents punted out by the high street leisure stores are just not good enough for use once they have suffered a wet british festival. (also you wouldn't believe what people do in them before they abandon them-a health hazard for the staff who have to clear up). Some of them are put in storage to use next year when people head to the welfare shed looking for somewhere dry to shelter but hundreds of tonnes of discarded tents, sleeping bags, gazebos and chairs all have to go to landfill and that has to be paid for. If you go to festivals please take your stuff away with you and leave no trace.

Definitely safety AND health reasons from looking at the photos, look at all that running water- OMG, can you imagine that running past the toilet facilities and then past the burger stands and beer tents - bleugh! no thank you!