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Richard#  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2012 13:50:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Richard#

Hi I work for a funeral business where we have staff going to visit the homes of customers. A staff member tripped when leaving the house of a customer resulting in an injury; what is the legal position here...who is liable and for what......which legislation applies. To complete a risk assessment for each home visit would be impracticable
Canopener  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2012 14:58:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

The 'legal position' and liability, if any will depend on the circumstances of the case i.e. what, if anything did she trip on, was it obvious or might it reasonably be expected to be there etc etc. You're right, it would be unreasonable to expect an employer to carry out a risk assessment for visiting every single house, and realistically I don't think I would go down the route of a generic assessment for entering 'normal' domestic properties as you might reasonably expect these to be free from significant risk (I am sure someone will disagree with that though and in fairness I have taken my life into my own hands merely getting to some people front doors to stick a letter through the box). Even if there has been an accident or injury, there may be mo liability on either the householder or the employer. I would say that the bulk of the responsibility would lie with the householder, although the person that tripped or slipped may also have some (perish the thought)
Jane Blunt  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2012 15:04:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Occupiers' liability laws I think. However, taking action against your customers could have unintended consequences.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2012 15:13:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Let's look at this from a different perspective. As undertakers, though you may be part of a managed chain and/or franchisee, you're in a cut throat market where word of mouth reputation counts greatly. Take action against the client, and watch your business go up in smoke!
Irwin43241  
#5 Posted : 05 October 2012 15:43:40(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

This was an accident connected with work. You have some responsibility. Does your staff visit alone? You then have lone working issues. Have you a health and safety policy? Does it cover visiting customers homes? If not it should and it seems from what you said no consideration has been given to staff who have an accident when visiting clients and what action needs to be taken in such circumstances. Always bear in mind, the employer has the primary Duty of Care.
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 05 October 2012 16:23:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Could it be that the person that tripped wasn't paying attention? As the song goes: "Nobody's blame but mine."
phargreaves04  
#7 Posted : 05 October 2012 16:57:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
phargreaves04

I would agree Occupiers Liability, I would also argue by visiting the premises they have implied permission to be there, a lawful visitor. It would not be reasonable to carry out risk assessment likewise the householder to give any warning. Might be different if there was a likelihood of a higher danger farm etc.
Richard#  
#8 Posted : 05 October 2012 20:38:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Richard#

Thank you for your replies.......I am still unclear on the legal stance here. If someone could offer clarity that would be great........I suspect there is a legal gap here in terms of responsiblity
sadlass  
#9 Posted : 05 October 2012 23:54:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

Lois. You have not said what caused the trip. Shoelaces? An unnoticed but normal step? Or a 'trap' of an unexpected nature - a box, a cable, something similar, by a negligent householder. The employer has a statutory duty to ensure 'sfairp' H&S in connection with work. So if injured on other persons premises, still employer duty, BUT how reasonably practicable to do anything to manage trip hazards in a private house - not very. So enforcement action nil. If however the employer had a degree of control to manage . . if the person tripped on the footpath to the house because it was dark, and they had no torch etc. maybe need to think about that, although enforcement interest still low. Now on to civil liability. The individual can (if there is a loss / injury) claim against the employer, (in theory or against the householder but why would they when the employer is vicariously liable) in that employer was negligent in sending them to a trippy-uppy, dangerous premise, with no torch, etc. Pretty thin. The employer could then claim (back) against the individual house-holder (dealt with under their Occuper Liability insurance hopefully!) if the householder created a silly trip hazard, but not if the trip was just a mis-step (no negligence). Not likely to be worth the effort, but don't know the circumstances. Does this answer your question? There is no gap.
Canopener  
#10 Posted : 07 October 2012 11:14:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Lois I am afraid that you are likely to remain as unclear on the "legal stance" as any of us without, as sadlass has already pointed out, providing more information. Time and again questions of duty and liability are posed on this forum with very little information to go on, and in this case you have provided the scantest of information. You cannot realistically expect much of an answer and certainly nothing that is likely to be anything 'definitive' (that is of course a matter for somewhere else' or little more than a stab in the dark. I don't think that there is a gap as such. The most likely legislation that applies is as already observed OLA, but also HASAWA, MHSWR................ If manual handling were involved then the MHR might apply etc etc. BUT, as always the outcome in terms of liability will depend on the INDIVIDUAL and SPECIFIC circumstances of the case, and we don't know what they are. The householder might be liable, the employer might be and it is quite possible, maybe even likely, that no one i.e. the householder or the employer is liable. CAPS used for emphasis
Jake  
#11 Posted : 08 October 2012 08:27:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

Just to add re risk assessments, although it would not be reasonably practicable to RA each premises centrally, operatives completing the visits could certainly be provided with training in identifying hazards in unfamiliar surroundings. Of the retailers that complete home deliveries I know they operate a point-of-delivery checklist / observation report that operatives are required to complete before undertaking the delivery (acting as a form of site specific RA). This would clearly go some way to raise employee awareness and provide another layer of protection for the company. In addition, although maybe not relevant as I'm assuming repeat visits may not be that common, but retailers gather feedback from completed deliveries and use this to inform operatives of future deliveries (e.g. if there is an issue with lack of lighting, persons to carry torches, likewise if there is a dog that causes issues deliveries can be refused). Maybe not 100% relevant, and I appreciate not touching on your actual question, but it is impossible to undertaken (and to a certain extent document) risk assessments for these situations if one wishes.
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