This is one reason why I remain anonymised whilst posting Group H&S have asked that we consider the use of "back belts" or lumbar supports in order to reduce the incidence of back injuries. Paragraph s 186-187 of L23 guidance say these are of little or now proven value. Any suggestions what I should do in response, please? Very many thanks

I would go back with the argument from L23 Para 186/7 in writing of course, but with the suggestion that actually, good working practices and more training would be a more cost effective and efficient use of resources. Try costing out the price of good quality back braces against a proper manual handling course delivered on site and you may find a solution that works and is well received.

They don't just have no proven benefit I have been led to believe that they can cause more harm than good by giving people a false sense of security about what weight they can lift (ie they lift more weight than they normally would consider safe to do so). As others have said, state your case and if they still go ahead with it then make sure you have your case against in writing. Won't protect the workers but will protect you from legal procedings should they arise.

No it takes financial security. Safe in the knowledge that you can pay the bills if you get the sack. I'm not saying it's ideal to just protect your own back but unless you can financially walk away from a situation then protecting your own back becomes necessary. As a consultant I am used to the fact that clients often will not do what I tell them to do. I won't lose sleep over it. I know I tried my best to convince them of the right thing to do and that I have the documentation to prove that if it all comes to the worse. That I'm afraid is reality.

Not any pretence to integrity? Just an eye on finances. It is perhaps a realistic response and I do have some sympathy, though it remains an entirely unimpressive response. And it does seem to be solidly at odds with the IOSH Code of Conduct. More importantly, a failure to act knowing that there is a serious issue at hand may be both illegal and actionable. The purely self-centred financial decision may then be worthless and fail. It is a decision that nobody will wish ever to be face.

Health and Safety is not about cost - it is about what it can save. It seems you have been asked to consider the use of "back belts". You must put your view forward and quote L23 guidance. If your advice is ignored / over ruled so be it. Happen's to me quite often but when necessary I persist with my views . Your post to me indicates possible underlying issues of a culture where H&S advice is sought but ignored. Not good.

That is very harsh and twisting what I have actually said to take the moral high ground, when there really is no need. I have not said that I would not try to convince them that back belts were not a valid solution, quite the opposite. Please re-read my posts more thoroughly. What I said was put the correct information forward but that ultimately if your view was not to be taken into account then you should protect yourself. That is something that has been raised by myself and others many times on this forum. Nothing dishonest or immoral about that. Do your job as best you can but don't take the fall if those above you with the purse strings decide to ignore your advice. IOSH Code of Conduct does not state that you have to put yourself out of job rather than accept the actions of your superiors. I quite resent what you are trying to imply Ian. Keep it civil and stop trying score points.

I had the choice 10 years ago, Ian on a job where i was the site supervisor. The Erection manager tried to over rule the MS we had agreed to work to by asking us to do it differently (unsafely) on a weekend. I refused to do this and was demoted back into the gang and transferred to another site. This impacted greatly on my finances but i managed to sleep soundly at night. I have had discussions by phone with the HSE since and discussions on forums with ex HSE and in my experience, they are more than willing to turn a blind eye. There was a long winded thread on here months ago about a chap who was worried about a guy he had witnessed a) Working alone b) Working @ Height from a MEWP c) Wearing no harness. A few on here said ignore it because you cannot deal with or report everything. My argument was if you have personally witnessed it, you have a duty to report it. I have always worked on the principle if i see something that could injure a person, i will bring it to someones attention/report it. I even went down the Iosh COD route. A legal duty? Definitely A moral duty? Definitely imo.

What industry is it? If by the initial posters details the work in question is in the waste industry I would imagine it is virtually impossible to provide alternatives to remove all aspects of manual handling. What sort of things are the workforce actually being expected to lift/carry/drag/move? Are there other more suitable aids available to prevent or minimise MH in all situations? Are the back braces just seen as an additional aid for when other aids cant be used? The workforce may actually see something like this as being useful to them where mechanical aids cant be used. Yes PPE is a last resort but is a control measure and inline with the requirements Regs

Same with me. Often we give good advice based on expertise and guidelines but it is ignored. Ensure you have records of your comments and suggestions/recommendations as previous posts. I have had to do this in the past, often, the fact that you send them a note to say you understand they are choosing to ignore your advice in this circumstance but wish it to be noted that you do not approve of their decision etc etc words to that affect, will make them realise you have strong opinion. It could however simply be they need to be advised rather than they want you to do as they say.