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phillyboy  
#1 Posted : 22 November 2012 11:04:26(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
phillyboy

Hi all, as the electronic world takes over and wireless tablets laptops phones and everything else for that matter are being used everywhere its becoming more and more difficult to manage as students will plug in anywhere and everywhere. I wondered what peoples views were on the charging of these electrical items?

Thanks for your views

Phil
Peter_OC  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2012 11:25:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Peter_OC

Should really not create an issue,
The majority of these prodcuts charging devices will be double insulated and not create a significant problem.

Also it should be noted the shelf life of todays technology tends to be relatively short, phone upgrades every 12-24 months, new technology released and replaced every couple of years.

My biggest concern would be with dated technology in use, possibly by teachers, other members of educational departments and not with the students technology that tends to be renewed each student loan day :)

Peter
phillyboy  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2012 11:45:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
phillyboy

Thanks for the reply peter very good point.

PAT testing is very important but when you introduce MOP's (students) it somehows muddies the water.

phil
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2012 13:09:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

phillyboy wrote:


PAT testing is very important


Debatable as always, but is it at all relevant in this circumstance? The charger belongs to the student. In any event, what additional value would testing the device add?
Alan Armer  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2012 13:21:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alan Armer

Risk based again. I agree with Peter OC. They will be double insulated and deliver what is classed as extra low voltage (i.e. typically 9v). The only hazard might be a broken plug or transformer and that could be open to debate. The ECA (Electrical Contractors Association) suggests 12 months to 4 year Testing for electrical items used in schools which for these is both impractical and falls into the "upgrade every 12-24 months scenario.) Remember there is no legal requirement to carry out PAT plus the items are privately owned and will not be used in the course of work (students aren't at work). Carry out a formal and pragmatic risk assessment and take into account the likelihood of 'new' equipment being damage and how that will affect the workplace. I suggest the likelihood could be 1 (out of 5) and the pragmatic consequence be 1 or 2. In which case I would conclude that PAT isn't needed. All based on my assumptions of the situation though.
Graham Bullough  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2012 14:07:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Phil

I agree with Peter_OC and his reasoning that there is no significant risk from students or anyone else plugging in chargers/adapters for their personal equipment in educational establishments. The same applies in a wide range of other premises/locations including libraries, hotels and inter-city trains. Over the years I've investigated incidents involving electrical appliances such as polishing machines and kettles with flexes and other components which are vulnerable to damage (and thus rightly merit PAT testing at appropriate intervals), but never any items powered through chargers/adapters. However, as my experience may well be unrepresentative, do any other forum users have experience or knowledge of incidents in which users of such items have been harmed?

Also, many power circuits in places with sockets which are readily usable by pupils, students, visitors, customers, etc., probably incorporate RCB (alias ELCB) protection already while the rest would benefit from having such protection added. In my previous role I found that most if not all of my employer's schools generally had power circuits with RCB protection, mostly as a result of electrical upgrades since the 1980s. However, few people at the schools seemed to either know of the RCBs and how they worked or were simply aware of their existence but not their locations. Therefore, I tried to remedy this lack of knowledge partly via my guidance to the schools about managing electrical safety. RCBs surely comprise a reasonably practicable measure for electrical safety in the majority of workplaces and other premises even though they are not 100% infallible and therefore should be tested at appropriate intervals.
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 22 November 2012 16:37:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

But make sure that they are not trying to plug in non-UK plugs into British sockets. This has happened at our site and one occasion they managed to damage the socket.
Clairel  
#8 Posted : 22 November 2012 16:55:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

I also agree wiht Peter_OC
Zimmy  
#9 Posted : 22 November 2012 19:44:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

As long as the schools insurance company is ok with private use of the electrical systems in the school and the electrical systems are tested/maintained and the school policy for such use states that this is ok and the students are happy that if something gets stolen, damaged etc etc then no problem at all. Better if the circuits are protected by RCD's.

In the two Local authorities I have worked for in the past it was policy to allow private electrical devices onto the premises ONLY if they have been PA Tested.

Who picks up the tab if it all goes wrong? The people with a duty of care as far as I can see.
paul.skyrme  
#10 Posted : 22 November 2012 22:27:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Alan,
The 9V thing is a bit of a red herring here.
The laptop I am using to type this reply uses a 230V:20V adaptor, so much more then 9V, but still ELV never the less.

There is more to this than is initially thought about zimmy suggests some, and there are more gems in other posts!
Zimmy  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2012 16:12:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Let us not forget that RCD's do not dis connect with a Live to neutral load (child) and have no in-built over current device (dead child) and RCBO's are the same with over current device. Either way, child hanging on to L&N = no chance.

If unsupervised, my advice, don't allow the things in the building.

I have seen far too many of these chargers with worn and damaged leads. This is not being over zealous, just honest
achrn  
#12 Posted : 23 November 2012 16:25:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

zimmy wrote:

If unsupervised, my advice, don't allow the things in the building.


Is that mobile phones, or children?
Graham Bullough  
#13 Posted : 30 November 2012 21:32:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Here are other aspects to consider about this topic:

Rather than try to impose blanket bans on pupils/students plugging in their appliances shouldn't schools and colleges try to educate them about basic electrical safety?

Does anyone know of any such establishments which have tried this approach, by what sorts of methods and with any discernible degree of success?

Also, on a related note, can anyone advise if the curriculum for GCSE level science includes any elements liable to help raise awareness and understanding about electrical danger and safety?
Zimmy  
#14 Posted : 01 December 2012 16:54:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Peter_OC wrote:
Should really not create an issue,
The majority of these products charging devices will be double insulated and not create a significant problem.

Double insulated they may be but:

The 2-core lead from the plug-top to the transformer is pvc insulated and pvc served wiring. If this wiring becomes damaged and a person comes in contact with both live and neutral the RCD (if fitted) will not and cannot work. Only the circuit MCB/Fuse will offer protection and of course, will open circuit way too late to safe a life.

Best thing to do is not to allow chargers into the building.
Jane Blunt  
#15 Posted : 03 December 2012 08:06:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I work in tertiary education. From my perspective I agree with Peter_OC and A Kurdziel.

David Bannister  
#16 Posted : 03 December 2012 08:38:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Does anybody have data on electrical injuries from defective phone etc chargers?
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