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NigelB  
#1 Posted : 30 November 2012 15:20:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NigelB

Dear All

On the 27th November 2012 at the House of Commons Scottish Affairs Select Committee Ian Kerr, former Chief Officer of the Consulting Association spilt the beans about an illegal database holding information on around 3,200 construction workers. Being active about health and safety issues was one of the reasons some individuals had a file on the database. Naturally union activity was another. In 4 hours worth of testimony Mr Kerr identified the numerous construction companies who financed, supported and used the illegal database, as well as individual company employees.

In 2009 the Consulting Association was closed down and Mr Kerr was prosecuted and fined £5,000.00. Some large organisations in the construction industry was shown to be operating a blacklist.

Do the revelations from Mr Kerr mean that the construction industry’s initiative ‘Respect for People’ – started in 2001 – was a charade?

As an aside on the 9th August 2011 SHP ran an article on a council Chief Executive who had refused to wear a hard hat when visiting a construction site. The article had 97 comments posted in 3 days. In total 210 comments were posted with many vitriolic posts about the Chief Executive or the site manager. Most comments were along the lines that rules are rules and hard hats must be worn whatever the circumstances.

I understand 9th August article attracted the most comments of any SHP report. Meanwhile the SHP article on Mr Kerr’s revelations has attracted 3 posts, one of which is mine! A reflection of some people in the construction industry thinking that it’s only worker’s behaviour that needs to change perhaps.

Cheers.

Nigel


johnmurray  
#2 Posted : 01 December 2012 00:49:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

The illegal database was only a digital equivalent of the "word in your ear" that is used regularly.
People have been denied jobs, and lost jobs, because of their union activities, political leanings, sex, sexual orientation and a host of other reasons for centuries.
Employers obey laws that it suits them to obey.
Live with it.
It isn't going to change, no matter how much they say they have mended their ways.
John J  
#3 Posted : 01 December 2012 08:59:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

The difference being John that this was a sophisticated operation that meant workers were tarnished with absolutely no evidence and this information was then used nationally.
A bit different from 'a word in your ear' as there was no escaping from it.

You are about to see some very big companies make some very big pay outs and that should act as a deterrent for many.
boblewis  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2012 09:38:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Having been in the industry for more than 2 decades one has to be careful about the realities of any initiative of this type. The real issue is that the quality of much of construction senior management re H&S is poor and they cover it over with publicity schemes such as this. The rules are set so ALL can claim success.

Construction is centred around the winning of contracts and how to gain extra monies from the client for the least additional effort or work. The maxim being that the best profit comes for the work that is not tendered. With these attitudes H&S has great difficulty in entering even the top 5 priorities. The blacklist was seen as a justified method to ensure that nothing stood in the path of the anticipated profit.

Bob
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2012 14:01:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Nigel

Commenting on your observations in reverse, it appears people like to provide tit bits, hence the hard hat article attracted lots of comments. I think when it comes to topics with more substance there is the likelihood that people will move on to a more softer issue, like 'is it a RIDDOR?' Such is life.

I have commented several times about this immoral practice. All the more shameful because the supposed 'great and the good' within industry were signed up to this consultancy service. Those organisations (some of whom I have worked for) and individuals within them have not yet been held accountable for their actions. I do hope this is rectified.

As for the Respect for People initiative, it goes without saying that this and other similar initiatives are nothing more than a farce. Moreover, I have never held much faith in self-governing initiatives such as Corporate Governance, CSR and even Zero Tolerance, Beyond Zero, or whatever slant you want to put on it. Workers are so not gullible either. Leading by example (talk is cheap) is the best form initiative to promote. Paraphrasing Jim Reason, organisations which abuse and deceive their employees deserve all that they get back in return.
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 01 December 2012 14:11:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Link below for those not famliar with the article:

http://www.shponline.co....as-just-following-orders
johnmurray  
#7 Posted : 09 December 2012 10:00:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"The government's Crossrail project is embroiled in a scandal over the blacklisting of construction workers after a senior manager on the rail link emerged as a regular user of the blacklist in a previous job"

"However, Ian Kerr, chief officer of the Consulting Association, told a committee of Scottish MPs last week that his members had talked at length about Crossrail during meetings to discuss the list. He claimed 'An awful lot of discussion took place at Consulting Association meetings about the Crossrail project." He also confirmed that firms blacklisted workers from the Olympic Park and a range of other projects including Portcullis House, the Admiralty, the Ministry of Defence's Whitehall HQ, GCHQ, the Jubilee line and the new Wembley stadium"

http://www.guardian.co.u...ail-blacklisting-scandal

johnmurray  
#8 Posted : 09 December 2012 10:07:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Victor Meldrew  
#9 Posted : 09 December 2012 18:40:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

I concur withn your posts JohnMurray - I heard on numerous occasions on a couple of the projects you mention about the 'blacklist' - I thought it was a wind up or a case of 'sour grapes' at the start but began to wonder 'when the same names' cropped up on another project.
johnmurray  
#10 Posted : 09 December 2012 22:55:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"You are about to see some very big companies make some very big pay outs and that should act as a deterrent for many"

We'll see.
Deter them ?
These are people who are so far up their own a***s that it is impossible for them to recognise their own faults, preferring to blame others AND the law for their sins.
The organisation was set-up by large companies for the purpose for which it was.used, to prevent people with a history of "activism" in a health and safety, and/or union environment from obtaining, or keeping, employment.
I see some extensive falling on swords.
Others are denying their involvement, and doubtless some "greasing" is going-on to persuade people to accidentally impale themselves on those same swords.
What can I say ?
Uk companies ignoring laws.
Who-woulda-thunk-it ! (everyone who has worked for small-biz, that's who)
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 10 December 2012 12:11:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

You are about to see some very big companies make some very big pay outs and that should act as a deterrent for many.

We'll see.
Some head of some insignificant department will "fall on his sword" and accept the "me not the company" blame.
The blacklisting will continue, with another patsy organisation. This time at several arms length, but only a phone call away.
The construction industry is awash with illegal, immoral and irrational practices.
Many of the companies ought to be in prisons, not building them.
pl53  
#12 Posted : 10 December 2012 12:22:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pl53

The construction industry is not the only one where blacklists have been in operation. The Economic League were active throughout the 80s and 90s operating a blacklist for the engineering industry as I found out to my cost. I still have copies of the card index files obtained by a then prominent journalist detailing info about me such as "involved in 6 week long strike" and "positively identified at rally involving Arthur Scargill". Fortunately I was employed at the time and continued to be employed by the same company until 2007. In the early nineties questions were asked in parliament and World in Action made a couple of documentaries and the Economic League seemed to go away, but I have no doubt the main instigators are still about doing their nasty work somewhere.
walker  
#13 Posted : 10 December 2012 13:50:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

There seems to be a general consensus that big construction companies tend to be amoral, on the face of this evidence that seems to be a reasonable assumption.
However what about clients, they also share the responsibility?
And of many these really large construction projects a funded by the taxpayer. Until cost ceases to be the only deciding factor then there will be no change.

Virtually every job I have knowledge of, has overrun & overspent; the blame here lies entirely with client procurement rather than construction management failures.
johnmurray  
#14 Posted : 10 December 2012 18:43:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

The Economic League only changed its name, it is still going....google will tell you..
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