Steve, as has been mentioned many times on this thread - most new defib units do not shock unless it detects a rhythm in fibrillation. So, its wrong to say the machine is an agent 'of death' - silly thing to say and only adds to the confusion, scare-mongery and general fear factor about using this essential life saving device. This is the crux of my arguement through this thread. It is in fact dangerous to promote the idea that these machines are themselves dangerous - remember, the person is DEAD and unlikely to survive if no attempts are made to use the defib unit. I dont understand why some respondents on this thread are so distracted by the need for training. Would you say the same had your loved one died while the defib lay next to them waiting for a trained first aider to arrive...............3 minutes passes away quickly

The bottom line is: In a cardiac arrest caused by VF or PVT a defib. is the only thing that will turn this around if it is applied in time. CPR is a good holding measure until a defib arrives, but thats all it is. For every minute post arrest that passes, without a defib being applied, chances of a return of spontaneous circulation are reduced by 7 - 10% They will only shock if one is required, so are quite safe They are simple to use, and training isn't required, however it is recommended, and readily available, free of charge They are relatively cheap, and part funding in certain circumstances are still available Many Healthcare professionals give up their free time to teach BLS and safe use of AED's to laypeople and Companies If you still need convincing, look at the short video from the oliver King foundation on youtube, and please sign our petition. Phil

Below is a story from our Heartstart news letter. Names changed for confidentiality. The real ‘Chain of Survival’ at Lancaster Railway Station On the afternoon of Wednesday 7th November 2012 71 year old Mrs X was waiting on Platform 4 at Lancaster Station to catch a train down to London. Just as she was boarding the train she suffered a sudden cardiac arrest. This set in motion a real life Chain of Survival. The First Link: Early recognition and Call for Help The people standing behind Mrs X were Mrs A and Mrs B. Mrs B had been trained just 2 weeks earlier in Emergency Life Support by her local CFR team, Walney Island, led by Chris Fagan. As Mrs X collapsed Mrs A and Mrs B came to her assistance. Mrs B shouted for help and a passenger on the train, a nurse, came to her aid. Mrs A had placed Mrs X in the recovery position on the platform but then noticed her breathing had changed. Mrs B rang for an ambulance. The Second Link: Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) Mrs B and the nurse recognized that Mrs X was unconscious and not breathing normally, - Cardiac Arrest and started effective CPR immediately. The Third Link: Defibrillation Fortunately for Mrs X she had collapsed just a few meters away from a publicly accessible Automated External Defibrillator (AED), located on the platform. This was brought to the scene by Virgin employee Mr A who was on platform duty that day. The AED pads were attached to Mrs X and two shocks were delivered. This combined with effective CPR resulted in Bridget’s heart restarting. A local GP Dr Z from Carnforth happened to arrive at the station and came to assist with the resuscitation attempt. The Fourth Link: Advanced Life Support/Post Resuscitation Care The Ambulance crew who arrived on scene that day was Mr A and Mr B from Lancaster. They worked effectively with the bystanders and the GP to provide effective post resuscitation care, IV access and advanced airway management. Mrs X was transported swiftly to Lancaster Royal Infirmary. When she arrived at hospital she was alive but unconscious and was admitted to Intensive Care. One month later and Mrs X is back at home and her 3 daughters (all healthcare professionals) are making arrangements for a very special Christmas. Without the help of the seven people who came to her immediate assistance that day and provided the links in the Chain of Survival, Mrs X would not be sitting at the dining table with her family this Christmas. To the mystery nurse who came to Bridget’s aid and will probably still be wondering what the outcome was, and all who contributed to this Chain of Survival, Thank you. Phil

AED's were originally designed and made with audio instructions for use by the layman.. However, all first aid courses nowadays should have a module on CPR AND the use of an AED. So in essence, yes. A percentage of your workforce must be trained on how to use them.

This still going...at work yes train your first aiders need it...public access no... Para 6 and 29 FAW ACOP .

..................AED's provide this training 'on the spot'.........along with information and detailed verbal instruction.

You are quite right - It came out the wrong way I meant the Defib is an aid to life and if not used death could occur. I suppose as I often quote something is better than nothing especially in this situation however I would be more happier them doing CPR than failing to use the machine properly. & yes alot of the machines only shock if their is rythem detection and that in itself could be a problem as the untrained person just sits there waiting for the shock to happen when infact CPR cant do any harm when you do it ! apart from a few broken ribs.

Hi Steve, ALL of the defibs will only charge up up supply a shock if they detect a shockable rhythm, some will then require the user to press a flashing red button, or the fully automatic defibs will issue a warning to stand clear, then start a countdown and deliver the shock automatically. ALL of the defibs will give an audible instruction to continue with CPR if they detect an un-shockable rhythm (ie a-systole, or normal sinus rhythm) So they really are foolproof, we have been teaching 8 year old cubs and brownies to use them recently Phil