Depends what one's motivations are Zimmy - the very few privately owned mines left operating in the Midlands Coalfield were paying bucketloads of cash to the few who were still working the face when I left the area - hundreds of pounds a day.

JJ - I don't think that many people do accept that £32k is a fair salary for the qualifications sought and the location mentioned in the original post. However, though we in the OS&H profession might think it unacceptable/inappropriate, can anyone suggest what effective steps exist for changing the perceptions of ermployers about what we should be paid?

In an earlier response, it was suggested that people should refrain from applying for jobs which they think are underpaid. However, in practice, is this likely to work? Surely there will always be applications from some people desperate for a job anywhere, even if the pay is such that they don't stay long in post.

One of the reasons I left HSE after some 10 years was that I'd been told during annual appraisal that I was being considered for transfer to London or elsewhere in South East England. Perhaps as a single person at the time I was regarded as cheaper and easier to move than most inspectors who had partners and families. Even with the pay weighting given to civil servants working in those areas (certainly London and possibly the South East as well) I knew that I simply wouldn't be able to afford to buy or rent any reasonable accommodation. (Furthermore, as a hill walker/mountaineer, I wouldn't have gone to the South East or anywhere else remote from hills and mountains even If I'd been offered double pay!)

Okay, I knew on joining HSE that inspectors were liable to transfer anywhere in the UK, so I couldn't really complain about this aspect later on. My subsequent job was for an organisation covering a relatively small geographical area. One of the reasons I chose it was to eliminate any concern about future liability to transfer.

Clairel, marry me ( I just love rich girls :-)

"Supply and demand" as mentioned by Clairel applies to house prices as well. Shortly before joining HSE in the late 1970s I was offered several locations and opted to go to Aberdeen. Though I'd heard that house prices in Aberdeen might be expensive, I didn't check to find just how pricy they actually were. In fact they were probably on a par with South East England in view of the fact that many people on very high salaries/pay connected with the then expanding offshore oil industry lived in the Aberdeen area. As a result, after finally getting a hefty mortgage plus a parental loan, I was fortunate to be able to buy a small one-bedded flat. Therefore, the modest sized house I bought in the area to which I subsequently moved from Aberdeen felt very palatial after the flat. Everything in life is relative!

Clairel - 'you choose to live in an expensive area'.... I didn't choose, this is where I was raised!
So then, rent in this area for a three bed semi is around £900 pcm, how does that compare geographically?
This is a relatively cheap area compared with others in the SE region!

£32K...... buttons when you throw in the travelling costs.

Apologies to those in a more unfortunate position. In the past my redundancy letter has arrived three times so I empathise with you. However, I agree, you are worth what Employers are willing to pay but JJ is correct.... £32K in this region is tosh...for a professional!

I very rarely totally disagree but I will on this occasion, OK, there may be low level exposure to the A-Z spectrum of SHE issues but overall a Uni will have nowhere near the 'potential' risks without adequate controls of say a Tier 1 Comah site, an oil rig, a nuclear power station or a massive manufacturing site holding an EA permit to operate.

I would expect a Uni SHE person to be paid 10k less than the Senior SHE person in the establishments mentioned and (as mentioned before) a look in SHP4JOBS and HASAWA Magazine Jobs (150+ this month alone) backs this up.

One thing that has been overlooked on this thread is that sometimes to get the bigger money you HAVE to move roles. If you started you career at company x who put you through your courses etc from the shop floor and advance you through a typical hierarchy of co-ordinator, safety manager then bolted on environment etc etc there will come a point when you will be on a wage that by appraisal is only ever going to go up by lets say 3% per annum on average. If you have capped out at lets say 30k before hitting this stage then you can work out pretty much your pay for the next x years whilst staying at said company.
I reached this stage circa 10 years ago and could go no higher or break this cycle due to the structure at the time (1 SHE person per site, 1 overall UK SHE person - new to role and young) so would have been stuck in the 3% cycle as long as I stayed there and in my opinion the company had got me on the cheap at this point compared to same role at other companies.
Yes I was luck in the respect of my location meant that Leicester, Derby, Nottingham and Birmingham were all commutable without physically moving home and so many large business' in my field paying what I considered the going rate at the time (40k).

Anyway - point I'm making is that it is unusual for anyone to get a significant (1000's) rise when you have been somewhere a long time, you will reach a cap without a significant structure change.

Where we are the average rent is £1000 per month. £600 per month will get you a studio flat (ie no bedroom, a small all in one living space) and that is here is Yorkshire.

People in the SE assume everywhere else is really cheap. People in the south need to grow up and realise the rest of the country moved on.

You do have a choice where you live. I don't live where I was raised and neither do many of the people I know. We all have choices.

'people in the south need to grow up' that's a rather general statement and unwelcome to many I'm sure!

Other parts of the country are generally cheaper than the SE, fact!

'we all have choices' I don't need to tell you how the job market looks right now and has done for the past five years, neither do I have to tell you how the economy has affected living, disposable income and flexibility.

I'd be happy moving to my 'place of origin' but I'm stuck where I am, can't afford to stay, can't afford to leave - various factors incl. little work in said location!

Anyway £1000 pcm average rent, as you said, other parts of Yorkshire couldn't command such money, we all have choices!

Damelcfc,
A very fair point. I'd only add that:

'no respecting 'competent' Health and Safety practitioner (affiliation or level of affiliation not so relevant) IMO should not work for less than £40K!

Tons of jobs out there, some real, some spurious and most with a 'gold plated' wish list but don't necessarily be put off by the wish list!

I'm a bit disgusted with the tone of this post and the "I would not get out of bed for less than......." bragging.
Look over in careers and see how many people a begging to work for nothing to get experience.
Those of us in work need to count our blessings
No one is being forced to apply for this job, at least they are up front regards the money.

To quote damelcfc “I very rarely totally disagree but I will on this occasion, OK, there may be low level exposure to the A-Z spectrum of SHE issues but overall a Uni will have nowhere near the 'potential' risks without adequate controls of say a Tier 1 Comah site, an oil rig, a nuclear power station or a massive manufacturing site holding an EA permit to operate.”

I did say most not all in my original posting

Yes I do appreciate that the examples damelcfc gave do have the potential as in the past I have worked on both COMAH sites and large manufacturing sites.

Some of the research carried out can certainly not be regarded as low risk, examples being the use of open source radioactive materials and Cat 3 Biological agents amounts others

However I still maintain that the range of work, by which I include research and support functions, is far wider that that normally encountered in other sectorsand this is reflected in the salarys on offer.

1 point we all need to be aware of is that it's relatively easy to become CMIOSH if you have the right qualifications (or I'm just amazing ;-) ).

With an acceptable degree, one can start IPD immediately out of Uni. I was CMIOSH within 1 year as my role was 100% OHS and it was easy to populate the SDP with examples.

I'm not sure a CMIOSH Uni graduate with 1-2 years OHS experience is automatically worth £40k +. In time, of course, but maybe not that early on in a career, with the amount of more experience professionals looking for jobs.

Apart from that point, I agree with all you other points in this thread!

Most of the jobs inSHP are agency jobs that dont exist. What is HASAWA magazine ?

Or at least I thought it was?
Someone else might confirm.

Some years ago there was a magazine article and/or possibly an widely forwarded e-mail with semi-humorous explanations of the contents of job adverts. "Salary negotiable" was listed as meaning as little as the employer/recruiter thought he/she could get away with. Perhaps the phrase has now become obsolete because there are fewer jobs around and employers know that they can recruit people for relatively less pay. If so, it's a classic example of supply and demand. :-(

Not at all, and no offence was intended (the smilie was there to suggest it was stated in jest). I spent 6 months writing my SDP (6 hours per week so about 158 hours in total) plus the time to actually do the activies, it's alot of work.

I meant relativelty to other professions (accounting, other financial related professions etc.).




Agree with all your points, but attributes are developed through experience and everyone learns at a quicker rate. It's perfectly reasonably for someone to develop eveyrthing you say over a short period, whether they are any good at any of them is a different story!



Agreed you wouldn't, but there are alot of (large) organisations taking graduates who will get to that position in a few years.

Fair enough you earn less and respect yourself no problem - that was my last sentence, why highlight the rest which is FACT and backed up by others?
Not ALL the jobs on SHP and the HASAW site are made up I can assure you also.
There has to be a point when if people don't like the answers, don't ask the questions - I don't (to answer another) see any post in this thread bragging or similar, I see a fair reflection of a range of salaries with justifications - How can it be disgusting?

We are all worth exactly as much as our last paycheque -not a penny more or a penny less.

Oh... And I don't have to spend 6 months in every 18 away from my wife and daughter.

Not just lucky but thankful too.

How long did you serve for? Based on what you say you were on 36k in the forces. You do not mention if you receive a forces pension which, as I am well aware, depending how long you were in will make up your 15k shortfall?

quote=clivelowery]Gunner1,

Why should a forces pension be considered in future employment?

I know a WO1 leaving in April 2013 after 26 years service and his pension is a lot less than 15K before tax!

Clive