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SBH  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2013 10:51:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

In large premises with good compartmentation and a strategy of horizontal evacuation techniques what would you put on the fire action poster as your assembly point.

Scenario: The final assembly point is 200 yards (car park), away from the fire but there are areas in between which due to compartmentation are not in alarm.

Is the assembly point called the "nearest safe area not in alarm" or would you put "car park" on the poster, or some other definition?


SBH
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 25 January 2013 11:00:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

We have a similar situation and we just say nearest marked car park assembly point.
messyshaw  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2013 18:47:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

So as long as your intended audience understand the instruction, go with it!

tony.  
#4 Posted : 27 January 2013 09:28:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tony.

How do you calculate the distance for a muster point?
What if it was a gas leak, with the potential for annexplosion, is the car park far enough away?
Pete Lithgo  
#5 Posted : 27 January 2013 17:10:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pete Lithgo

tony. wrote:
How do you calculate the distance for a muster point?
What if it was a gas leak, with the potential for annexplosion, is the car park far enough away?


Distance will depend on the location and the possible effects from the possible hazard.
Gas leaks hazard again depending on the possible hazard, may be have safe locations to prevent inhalation air tight cabins etc, you may have wind socks to indicate direction and you should emergency procedures and instruction to the safest muster point.

The muster point is the first safe meeting point and you may need to be removed further if explosions likely or other dangers that may put the muster point area at risk.
MrsBlue  
#6 Posted : 28 January 2013 09:05:02(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I have always thought 25m (minimum) for fire and 50m (minimum) for bomb threat.

Educate me please or is it all down to risk assessment.

Rich
Nicholl19157  
#7 Posted : 28 January 2013 10:21:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nicholl19157

I have always been taught that for a small explosive device the safety distance should be 100m (hand grenade size or smaller) anything bigger should be at least 200M (2 football fields end to end).

if you consider that just a 1kg (bag of sugar) of modern explosives can shred a car i think 50m is a bit close.

We have a gravel drive and my plan has to account for skidding fire engines. my safety area is behind a brick wall which will offer some protection against blast is the gas boiler go bang>
Nicholl19157  
#8 Posted : 28 January 2013 10:22:23(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nicholl19157

I have always been taught that for a small explosive device the safety distance should be 100m (hand grenade size or smaller) anything bigger should be at least 200M (2 football fields end to end).

if you consider that just a 1kg (bag of sugar) of modern explosives can shred a car i think 50m is a bit close.

We have a gravel drive and my plan has to account for skidding fire engines. my safety area is behind a brick wall which will offer some protection against blast if the gas boiler go bang>
draiggoch  
#9 Posted : 28 January 2013 12:13:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
draiggoch

SBH,
Who occupies the building, workers or tenants?
You have to be careful that you do not confuse people with the fire action sign.
Since a horizontal evacuation plan will mean you do not leave the building unless it is absolutely necessary.
If your evac. plan states follow directions of fire marshalls to safe area of building and then your fire action sign says go to muster point e.g. car park.
The evac plan may be there to keep vulnerable people within the building, e.g. elderly persons would be safer indoors in unaffected area than out in the cold.
D.
SBH  
#10 Posted : 28 January 2013 13:05:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Everybody - its an hospital

SBH
Psycho  
#11 Posted : 28 January 2013 17:20:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

If you are asking this type of thing for a hospital
i think you need a new risk assesser and i am worried for you
please read HTM 05:02 about horizontal evacuation in a hospital
then read all the rest of the HTMS and learn them inside out
get your bosses to read HTM 05:01 so they can share a cell with you when it goes wrong
then look who and what you have in your area
if you have an A&E ( walking wounded ) get them to go outside front entrance put that on the action notice. If its an outpatients same thing geriatric ward with a ward on both sides put adjacent ward as directed by senior staff , train your staff to evacuate visitors (outside) walking wounded then bed ridden patients to the adjacent areas , you are looking at the most dangerous place after a comah site if its one of my large hospitals 900 patients, also
look at your specialist areas ITU theatres where are you going to send them, have you found alternative areas. if ITU is evacuated you need an alternative area with sufficient gas and plugs for the life support machines, you do not need assembly points outside as there is no one to do any mustering the 4 members of staff on the ward will be to busy looking after the poorly patients than being bothered that a visitor got outside past the hospital street. Finally a bit of advice if you get this wrong for a hospital and there is an incident you will get major time. Please get to your local NAHFO meeting for the specialist advice you require, Hospitals are a specialist area, Pm Me and i will answer any future questions you have and will point you in the correct direction in the firecode
messyshaw  
#12 Posted : 28 January 2013 17:22:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

SBH: If you are using progressive horizontal evacuation, you do not need to mention a specific muster point. Have a look here

https://www.google.co.uk...252F0167.htm%3B394%3B592

and

https://www.google.co.uk...252F0102.htm%3B395%3B592

Good luck
messyshaw  
#13 Posted : 28 January 2013 17:34:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

As for bomb incidents. Unless there is a likelihood of a bomb incident due to the location or nature of work at your premises, I wouldn't worry too much and use the fire assembly points as usual in the first instance;

However, the 999 services use the following criteria re establishing a restricted zone at a bomb incident:

100m (radius) bags, boxes etc
200m cars & light vans
400m trucks

a 400m is a huge area (800m diameter) which may be relaxed if suitable cover. But I have attended a detonated bomb in London and there was substantial damage to curtain walling well over 400m away
SBH  
#14 Posted : 29 January 2013 12:15:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Psycho

I know the HTMs inside out, and know all the procedures required. I am just looking at how best to phrase written instruction on the fire action notice that is simple to understand

SBH
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