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Anderson8  
#1 Posted : 22 February 2013 10:53:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Anderson8


I work as a regional H&S advisor in a large manufacturing organisation, in this role a debate I often face is, when employees report accidents "late" for example, they have a period of absence then attribute the absence to an accident at work the organisation has no knowledge of often 1,2,3 weeks ago, reporting it on return to work, then why should we believe and except this? Another example might be simply reporting it 2/3 days later then going absent.

I understand and recognise the ambiguity in this scenario, and so can understand strong opinion is around.

My view on this is we "should" accept this report, and, when reportable under riddor…. then I'm afraid it's also reportable. And it is up to us as an organisation to investigate all reports. As I say, I totally get the argument, however, seeing accidents and riddors decrease simply though changing what we accept as an accident is not a good accident reduction programme!! There are other methods we could improve on to help this, but that’s another story..


Help me guys, I'm not only looking for safety professionals but general supervisors, managers and any profession in which absence of this nature has an impact to join the debate. Am I alone in my view??......hope not :-/
pl53  
#2 Posted : 22 February 2013 11:09:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pl53

Unfortunately I believe there is an increasing tendency in most industries to differentiate between different grades of accident ie lost time, minor etc and only make KPIs out of the more serious types. In my view this then encourages supervisors and managers to try to find ways of ignoring accidents just as you have described. I am fully in agreement with in the concept of putting a level of effort into an investigation that is commensurate with the seriousness of the consequences or potential consequences, that afterall is what reasonably practicable is all about but if we only make KPIs out of lost time or RIDDORs we miss a valuable opportunity to prevent accidents at source.
Anderson8  
#3 Posted : 22 February 2013 11:34:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Anderson8

Agree 100% In my, and many organisations this is true. Objectives and KPI's are aligned to lost time incidents, as we know, prevention is the best cure, and even the most minor incidents/near miss are leading indicators to more serious incidents. Great point
John J  
#4 Posted : 22 February 2013 11:47:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Unless you have accident reporting criteria your employees are entitled to report when they want.
I work on a requirement to report within 24hrs. If it's not obvious it's an accident its not unreasonable that its reported as a near miss. Employees who are off can report by phone. Reporting on return to work is a nonsense as the employee will have had the knowledge that there was an issue, be delaying remediual action and leaving somebody else open to having an accident.

Your metrics should include minor accidents but be careful. How you respond to an accident can determine the level of reporting. A heavy handed approach drives it underground and the first you know about the problem is when you get a lost time accident.

John
Anderson8  
#5 Posted : 22 February 2013 12:56:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Anderson8

Thanks John, our criteria is an immediate report. But when employees fail to follow this, for whatever reason this is the problem.

Of course all the other points you make are spot on, out of interest, what would be your organisations response to receiving a report outside the 24hour criteria be?
jay  
#6 Posted : 22 February 2013 12:59:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

From personal experience in a local authority that had a peripatetic workforce, the key issues to address are:-
Effective communication of the requirement to report accidents within specified timescales-should be a part of induction training.

Depending upon the safety/organisation culture, it may be worth getting a record of this.
Also to make it clear that this not following the company policy on reporting of accidents at the earliest opportunity is a misconduct & can have disciplinary procedure consequences

Also to train/instruct effectively all those who are in the reporting chain about this. Most important is to link the accident reporting to your absence reporting system, including forms, capture of absence information by other means of communication with a specific question, "is your absence due to an accident at work/" My experience, for some of the genuine cases is that they wrongly assumed that when reporting the absence, the person at the other hand somehow knew it was due to an accident at work! or sometimes it could be their partner, relative etc reporting the absence.

Last, but not least, whether you need to use the carrot /stick or combination of both depends upon the saefty culture in your organisation.

gramsay  
#7 Posted : 22 February 2013 13:31:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

I think it's important to see employee conduct as separate to employee safety.

Accident REPORTING must be neutral and blame free. It doesn't matter whether an accident happened 5 minutes ago or 5 weeks ago, I still want to know about it because (even in the case of 5 weeks ago) we need to ensure no-one is at risk due to an unknown hazardous condition. If it's reported 5 weeks late then it still gets recorded.

Accident INVESTIGATION, on the other hand, should certainly examine why on earth we didn't know about the accident 5 weeks ago, and (depending on the circumstances) may establish that it did, or did not occur as alleged. This is really a conduct issue though, not a Safety one.

You can never say an accident didn't happen just because someone didn't immediately tell you about it, but you can make sure people know the seriousness of this issue, both in advance (induction, etc) and after the fact.
Anderson8  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2013 13:58:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Anderson8

Thanks guys, Gramsay & Jay, you both touch on training out the importance of reporting on time which again I agree with, we cover this on induction and also through refresher training.

Jay, your point about culture is a good one, and I feel this is perhaps closer to our problem, not just with employees reporting, but also through team leader/manager level when dealing with absence and response to late reports.

Thanks all for your comments, I feel better knowing we all seem to agree all accidents no matter what the reasons, or how late should be dealt with in the same way, with perhaps different outputs form the investigation.
Gunner1  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2013 14:55:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gunner1

If they are not in compliance with company policy then it's a disciplinary matter. I refer such matters to HR.

Accidents need to be reported in a timely manner. One very important reason why is the investigation can be difficult and the facts not easy to establish because of late reporting.
jfw  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2013 19:28:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jfw

In my last organisation, (large manufacturing site with 200+ employees), we went through a period when a number of accidents started to be reported several days or even weeks after the alleged incident with no witnesses.

Common theme was that the individuals concerned had poor attendance records and were either already in the disciplinary procedures for this or had been warned they faced it if their attendance did not improve.

If the absence was as a result of an accident, their attendance recorded would not be affected. Some would report their non-attendance as being due to an accident when ringing in on the first day, where as others did not mention an accident until their return to work interview, which in some cases was several weeks later.

We addressed this by updating the accident reporting policy and procedure, with the agreement of the trade union. In it, we stated that :-

- all employees had a duty under Section 7 of HASAWA to co-operate with the Company to enable it to comply with its legal duties.
- all accidents must be reported before leaving site at the end of the shift on which the accident happened.
- any accidents not reported in this time frame would not be considered a works accident, but would be logged
- any employees not reporting accidents within this timeframe will be considered to be in breach of Section 7 and could face disciplinary procedures

Some of you might think this a heavy handed approach, but it worked. It put an end to the issue and the feedback through the grape vine from the shop floor was actually positive, because it was felt that the individuals who had been involved with this were trying to play the system and that management had addressed it in a fair way.
damelcfc  
#11 Posted : 25 February 2013 09:04:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

There are similar threads on here and as has already been pointed out this one really does split opinion and there are very strong arguments on both sides of the fence with both sides being able to defend their stance/approach with practical examples. To that end all I can do is give you my interpretation.

'All accidents, no matter how minor must be reported as soon as possible, absolutely before the end of shift and without fail before leaving site - failure to do so could lead to disciplinary action'

This was agreed with the Union also and of course is open to be shot at by the 'accept it late' side but I have/had no spurious late reporting.

Everyone is crystal clear. Report at the time or it will not be accepted even if your head is hanging off - if you have left the premises, it happened off the premises.

The rule is there to protect both sides.
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