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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:02:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

This could be a little sensitive but someone has recently opined that people cannot carry out work as health and safety consultants if they are disabled. (He will remain anonymous but he does hold a rather senior position in law)

I know what I think about that statement but just wonder what others think?
IanF  
#2 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:13:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanF

The term 'disability' is very broad - there could be, for instance, mobility issues, why someone could not gain access to a certain area to give H & S advice - but as a general consultant, advising on the finer points of H & S, why not?
KieranD  
#3 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:23:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

If a person has an impairment that severely limits their capability to read accurately and to write even with digital technology, their scope as a H & S consultant would be circumscribed.

In practice, physically disabled people do work as consultants as illustrated by an immobile Senior Inspector of Ofsted who insisted that her lack of mobility should not restrict her role as a leader of school inspections. When questions arose about physically carrying her, in relation to her gender and relgious status (she is a nun), in the event that practical barriers block access for her, she simply and effectively delegates specific tasks to others with the necessary mobility.
damelcfc  
#4 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:26:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

Difficult one and for me a H&S Practitioner is a bad example (Scope of exact role would have a bearing).

I also focus on the 'cannot' bit, personally would agree with the words 'should not' inserted against various roles but again, a H&S Practitioner is not one of the 'jobs' I have in mind.

Difficulty lies with not discriminating in the terms of the law so really is just an opinion. Cannot and should not are two different things. Cannot almost implies physically impossible to. Should not can be divisive dependant one which side of the fence you sit on the topics subject matter and a personal opinion formed over many years from various sources/cases/arguments/news/changing world.

firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:32:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

OK I get the points raised but can anyone suggest a type of workplace a physically disabled person would not be expected to work.

Canopener  
#6 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:42:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Interesting one and as something of a sweeping statement ".. People cannot carry out work as health and safety consultants if they are disabled" is something of a nonsense. That said, I suffer from 2 chronic conditions that would (almost certainly) be regarded as a 'disability' under EA and there are some jobs that due to one of my conditions I am 'barred' from doing including offshore work, and cabin crew. Soooo, whoever it was might be right.

Picking up on your latter post, being realistic I would have thought that there might be any number of jobs that would prove difficult for people with certain disabilities to do, but there are also plenty that they can do and do, do!
damelcfc  
#7 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:53:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

Firesafety101 wrote:
OK I get the points raised but can anyone suggest a type of workplace a physically disabled person would not be expected to work.



Sorry to start with 'depends on the extent of the disability' but perhaps;

Down a Mine.
A Quarry.
Certain locations for field operations.

Depends on how 'hands on' the requirement was.

I can give you loads they 'should not' again, but obviously I will not.
What I'm basically saying is that the law will talk about access/egress, PEEPs and all the other bits and bobs we are aware of but there will be certain locations/facilities that are just not 'up to standard' for disabled persons to easily move about nor get out of in a hurry in reality. (Regardless what the law says)
What you will find is that they are just not employed in these sectors by choice / "oh dear 'you failed the maths test' sorry no job" criteria.

I think 'whoever' has said what you allude to in the OP has opened themselves up to be shot at as the whole statement is not PC - the world actively discriminates by other means ( maths, English, lack of experience, etc) without ever dare tell the real reason of skin colour, disability, aesthetics - whatever the actual decision was.

To not know this in 2013 is silly - we all know what we can and cannot say - regardless what we actually think.
David Bannister  
#8 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:53:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I would not expect a blind person to be working as a driver, nor would I expect a deaf person to be a counsellor.

I have a minor hearing disability but it certainly does not preclude me from doing my job in virtually any environment. I manage.
SamJen1973  
#9 Posted : 20 March 2013 15:57:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SamJen1973

The term H&S Consultant potentially covers a very broad area as does the term disability. Sweeping statements like that are very unhelpful and, as someone who works for a disability organisation, they tend to make me very grumpy!

As canopener said there are some jobs that individuals may not be eligible to do due to their particular physical disabilities or medical/health conditions. Most other roles would be subject to the protections in the Equality Act against discrimination and balanced against the ability to make reasonable adjustments to accommodate the person's disability.



firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 20 March 2013 16:15:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I described a job I did as H&S consultant for works in a road tunnel. The tunnel is 2.5 miles long and it was closed to public during the works. Access was available at all times and I did my work either in the car or in the site office.

From the car I could see everything that went on, there was a H&S manager doing site inspections, Inductions etc.

The workers were transported to their location by minibus or own vehicle.

This was not believed.

I have a walking problem, can walk a little but need to sit down a lot.

I also have experienced using a mobility scooter to get across town to a location

Where I could sit and/or lean against something and do the work that way.

Does anyone have a view on those examples?

Hospital Boy  
#11 Posted : 20 March 2013 16:31:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Hospital Boy

I am registered disabled, as I am a double below the knee amputee. My current role involves two large acute hospital, a day hospital and a few health centres. I am fully mobile, and there is not that I cannot do, apart from running!!!

I have no obstacles in my role, which involves a fair amount of walking. My role? I am the senior fire adviser.

Cheers !!

HB
MrsR  
#12 Posted : 20 March 2013 18:03:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrsR

I have a physical disability affecting my mobility, sometimes I have to use mobility aids but I still work a full-time H&S role. Sure, in the damp and cold weather I'm strict about taking my lunch breaks so I can rest, and I manage my diary carefully but I've never had to refuse do any aspect of my job on the grounds of diability. If I work a 14 or 15 hours day, then I take the next morning off for recovery time, but I always meet my targets.

No one can say a disabled person can't do this role. That's silly (as well as discriminatory!). I have found more acceptance in my H&S role, than the harrassment I faced when working in facilties management, I always thought it was because my colleagues came from a risk assessment point of view, we always looked at what I could do and when there was a challenge we'd look at what we could do to work around it (control measures). It was that type of background and willingness that made it easier for me to "fit in".

My disability is an advantage in my role, I have faced challenge after challenge, so I'm a great problem solver.

firesafety101  
#13 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:05:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Thanks to everyone for your views.

I now write the exact words:

"would have to possess such a degree of functional ability in relation to both mobility and care to work as a Health and Safety Consultant"

Does this now change your views?

damelcfc  
#14 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:13:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

No!

It really does still depend on the expected scope of the work.
I have managed (loose use of the word) to fulfil my role from my desk for the last 3 weeks.
Some 'Consultants' will be more 'hands-on' or 'mobile' than others dependent on scope of the work involved in the contract.
NickH  
#15 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:17:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
NickH

quote=Firesafety101]Thanks to everyone for your views.

I now write the exact words:

"would have to possess such a degree of functional ability in relation to both mobility and care to work as a Health and Safety Consultant"

Does this now change your views?



Difficult one. 'such a degree' is a bit wishy washy if you ask me. Open to all sorts of interpretation when taken out of context from the whole statement.

Have to say that I agree with all of the above posts. Personally I don't have a disability, but my brother does. H&S is a fair part of his role in project managing and overseeing his team's specific area of RN ship refits/ repairs. He did receive challenges from senior management a few years ago, but overcame these by demonstrating competence over and above what would normally be expected. Having worked himself up from being 'on the tools' so to speak, he's been there and done it, so knows what to look for.

He also had no qualms about challenging various members of senior management when they were not following safety procedures when visiting projects (think going down to the bottom of a dry dock with no PPE and not signing in on the surface prior to entry).

All of his team have an immense amount of respect for him as they know they can rely on him to fight their corner. SMT also now have respect for him as he has demonstrated he is equal to (and in some cases more proficient than) an equivalent able bodied person.
Canopener  
#16 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:53:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I think that the comments by Hospital Boy and MrsR are really insightful.

Unfortunately illegal discrimination still exists in various guises, and it often strikes me that some people are genuinely ignorant of their responsibilities with regard to EA and the needs of those with a disability (or perhaps they simply don't care!) .

Firesafety, I do still not fully understand where you are coming from or what you are really after (although it could be me being a bit obtuse) but I assume that you have a disability and that someone somewhere has suggested that you can’t apply for a job. You yourself have provided an example at #10 in which someone with a disability can with a little thought continue to do a ‘job of work; with a little bit of thought.

Depending on the nature of their work, some consultants may not stray far from their desk while others may need to physically climb to the top of a building in order to fulfil their role, and any number of shades of grey (am I allowed to mention that on here?) in between.

The devil is in the detail. Some disabilities would preclude doing some jobs, but many others won’t. A little creative thinking can overcome many barriers that people with disabilities face. But overall the original assertion that “..that people cannot carry out work as health and safety consultants if they are disabled.” is at best rather short sighted, and some of the people commenting on this thread can testify to that.
SamJen1973  
#17 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:56:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SamJen1973

Firesafety101 - your specific quote does not change my view one bit.

I don't have a disability, but I work for an organisation that supports disabled people. The way I see it is that you will be able to carry out any role (including H&S Consultant) as long as the following can be achieved:

- Safe access/egress to the workplace (whether it's an office, a construction site or, as given in your example, a tunnel).
- Ability (physical and competence) to carry out the specific tasks associated with your role/responsibilities
- You are not at greater risk (after any reasonable adjustments/control measures) than others would be if carrying out a similar role
- Any reasonable adjustments/control measures introduced for your safety do not introduce risks for others.

Obviously there are certain industries/jobs in which some disabilities/health conditions preclude you from working. But generally speaking, I think the above applies.

Sam
Ron Hunter  
#18 Posted : 21 March 2013 12:33:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Firesafety101 wrote:
Thanks to everyone for your views.

I now write the exact words:

"would have to possess such a degree of functional ability in relation to both mobility and care to work as a Health and Safety Consultant"

Does this now change your views?


Whoever this undivulged person in a senior role (#1) is, I suggest they have given very careful consideration to their chosen words. The statement is wide open to interpretation. You perceive DDA/Equality issues. I could interpret it as must have a valid driving licence. As for "functional ability in relation to care" - who knows? That could mean anything!
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