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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:07:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

This should be interesting. I ask because I have the thread about disability and H&S on the go with some very interesting views. I believe you have to be a H&S consultant to know what one is.
damelcfc  
#2 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:17:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

Someone who gives advice on H&S issues within their competence and known limitations. Someone who gets paid from organisation A to deliver a service but is not an employee of Organisation A.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:19:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Consultant: a professional individual paid above the market rate to provide opinion.
calum.cameron  
#4 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:21:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
calum.cameron

The term consultant is overused anyway in my view. In the medical profession, a consultant is at the "top of his game". Can this be said for some consultants in our field with minimal quals and experience?? I think probably not. The term consultant lulls people into the belief that an individual is an expert in his field, in our case HSE matters-this is not always the case in the UK for HSE Consultants. The IOSH Consultants register goes some way to addressing this issue but I believe it should be further underpinned and legislated for in the same way that we have "Gas Safe" etc. This would remove the "cowboy" element. I open the floor...............
damelcfc  
#5 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:29:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

Calum - I think you have answered a question you wish was asked (with respect) based around competency. I do not disagree with your comments but you do not define at a basic level what a H&S Consultant is/is not.
JJ Prendergast  
#6 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:38:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

As I have said on numerous times in the past health and safety is a very broad career. In my particular area, working as safety engineer in the O&G industry we use skills and knowledge that are not covered in IOSH training courses - yet I am still a health and safety consultant or am I a consulting engineer? There is so much more to health and safety and being a health and safety consultant than simply passing IOSH courses. This is part of the problem in defining a health and safety consultant - it covers such a wide range of skills and technical/scientific areas. I was CMIOSH - but it is of limited benefit to me, in the type of safety work I currently undertake.
damelcfc  
#7 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:45:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

But surely the focus is on the word 'Consultant' which (in my mind) is a different role to Officer, Co-ordinator, Manager, Adviser, Director. I am employed by my company so I cannot be a Consultant? Am I wrong here or what?! If I was an outsider charging by the hour or day or week or whatever either as self employed or from a Company of Consulatnts that would make me a Consultant...right?....
chris.packham  
#8 Posted : 21 March 2013 10:52:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I looked the word consultant up in my Concise Oxford Dictionary, to find: "a person providing professional advice, esp. for a fee." as well as the medical definition. Where does that leave us? I do not tend to use the word 'consultant' as I have found it causes confusion among clients. Instead I tend to use the word 'advisor' as that is what I really do.Also, perhaps, because I was once told by a client that a consultant was someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time, then puts it is his pocket! Cynical perhaps, but it illustrates how some think.
Evans38004  
#9 Posted : 21 March 2013 11:37:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

Reminds me of the old response: A consultant is someone who you pay to come in and tell you what the time is He then asks to see your watch Tells you the time Keeps your watch & your money
Heather Collins  
#10 Posted : 21 March 2013 11:40:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

A H&S Consultant is someone who the rest of the H&S profession despises and criticises for not knowing what we are doing while still believing that we all make £100k a year and have yachts in the Caribbean. Cue whining about OSHCR being useless, CMIOSH being pointless and consultants being incompetent cowboys. Now, is it Pimms O'clock here in the sunny Caribbean yet? ;-)
damelcfc  
#11 Posted : 21 March 2013 11:54:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

^^ Only 100k? ;-)
NickH  
#12 Posted : 21 March 2013 12:13:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
NickH

damelcfc wrote:
^^ Only 100k? ;-)
Probably only works part time. Well, you would wouldn't you knowing you can play on your yaqcht in the Caribbean... ;o)
NickH  
#13 Posted : 21 March 2013 12:14:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
NickH

*Yacht*
Norfolkboy  
#14 Posted : 21 March 2013 12:46:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Norfolkboy

How do I become a £100k a year Consultant ? Is there a course ?
NickH  
#15 Posted : 21 March 2013 12:59:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
NickH

Heather runs one. It's £100k. :o)
damelcfc  
#16 Posted : 21 March 2013 13:00:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
damelcfc

norfolkboy wrote:
How do I become a £100k a year Consultant ? Is there a course ?
Set yourself up as a Ltd Co (less than £50) Charge £500 a day. Do 3 x Interim assignments per year of 3 months at the above 'average' rate. Have the rest of the year off for Xmas, Easter, looking for next role etc. 'Focus Interim' are hot in this field in food industry - Google.
Norfolkboy  
#17 Posted : 21 March 2013 16:16:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Norfolkboy

On a serious note that looks really useful .. Thanks
JJ Prendergast  
#18 Posted : 21 March 2013 16:58:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Set yourself up as a Ltd Co (less than £50) Charge £500 a day. Only £500 day .....
pete48  
#19 Posted : 21 March 2013 17:24:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

"Set yourself up as a Ltd Co (less than £50)". but this is not the only cost of running a Ltd company! And often not recommended for what is often nothing more than a sole trading set up. There are other options but they all have costs and disadvantages Talk to an accountant before making any such decision! Maybe an accountant in this context is a financial consultant? What is a consultant? Someone with whom you contract (pay) to help you with your business and who isn't an employee. p48
Victor Meldrew  
#20 Posted : 21 March 2013 20:18:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

norfolkboy wrote:
How do I become a £100k a year Consultant ? Is there a course ?
70 hours a week. Do it for five years then take it easy....... on your yacht in the Caribbean ;-)
firesafety101  
#21 Posted : 21 March 2013 21:32:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Thank you all, I realise Friday is almost upon us and if this turns into the Friday thread who knows what a Consultant will be by teatime?
Merv  
#22 Posted : 22 March 2013 08:18:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Merv

In my early days as a consultant (only £500 ?) I was reminded of our similarities with "the oldest profession" : You've got something to sell, you sell it, and you've still got it. Merv
Zyggy  
#23 Posted : 22 March 2013 08:47:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

I once employed the services of an expert probate lawyer & when we were discussing his fees he simply said that "you are paying me for what I know....not what I do!" Zyggy
Yossarian  
#24 Posted : 22 March 2013 09:09:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Firesafety101 wrote:
Thank you all, I realise Friday is almost upon us and if this turns into the Friday thread who knows what a Consultant will be by teatime?
I see Merv has started us off well already, although it'll take some effort to top it.
Norfolkboy  
#25 Posted : 22 March 2013 09:26:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Norfolkboy

I don't think you can beat Mervs post. Although it makes for an interesting business model.
Yossarian  
#26 Posted : 22 March 2013 09:57:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

norfolkboy wrote:
I don't think you can beat Mervs post. Although it makes for an interesting business model.
"Just stick a pink carnation in your hat and make the old sign."
David Bannister  
#27 Posted : 22 March 2013 13:17:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

In answer to the title question, a Health and Safety Consultant is not only at the top of his game, but everybody around them knows it, is highly respected by his peers and lesser practitioners, has reached such a position in his lucrative career that he no longer needs to work except on alternate Tuesday and Thurday mornings and is, of course, male. His erudite postings on this forum are universally regarded with awe and a certain amount of affection whilst his abundant contributions to occupational H&S are highly valued and always recognised and acknowledged by politicians, enforcers and the media. He doesn’t walk on water as his snakeskin safety shoes would be ruined, but he could if he wished. And then I woke up and it was Friday.
ptaylor14  
#28 Posted : 22 March 2013 13:32:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

David Bannister wrote:
In answer to the title question, a Health and Safety Consultant is not only at the top of his game, but everybody around them knows it, is highly respected by his peers and lesser practitioners, has reached such a position in his lucrative career that he no longer needs to work except on alternate Tuesday and Thurday mornings and is, of course, male. His erudite postings on this forum are universally regarded with awe and a certain amount of affection whilst his abundant contributions to occupational H&S are highly valued and always recognised and acknowledged by politicians, enforcers and the media. He doesn’t walk on water as his snakeskin safety shoes would be ruined, but he could if he wished. And then I woke up and it was Friday.
We like our little jokes.......dont we
Merv  
#29 Posted : 22 March 2013 16:00:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Merv

David you must have seen the script of the upcoming blockbuster movie "The life of Merv" Anon
Betta Spenden  
#30 Posted : 23 March 2013 12:39:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

evans38004 wrote:
Reminds me of the old response: A consultant is someone who you pay to come in and tell you what the time is He then asks to see your watch Tells you the time Keeps your watch & your money
As a consultant I must say....That is one of the best answers ever. Crack on.
andybz  
#31 Posted : 23 March 2013 16:12:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

Some people clearly have a dim view of consultants. I think this is partly due to certain people calling themselves consultants when that is not really the service they offer, but also because people do not understand the role. I believe a consultant is someone who provides an objective professional opinion to solve a problem or realise an opportunity for the client. I think the technical aspect (in this case health and safety) is only a small part of this offering, and the main skill is consultancy, which can be applied very widely. Response #2 highlights a dilemma. Most consultants are working in areas where there is no relevant definition of competence and are asked to do things that have not been don often enough for there to be any clear idea of what the correct solution will be. If you are engaging consultants to do work that does not require this ‘higher level’ offering you are probably wasting your money. The watch explanation provided in #8 is a very old one. It is often quoted as a complaint against consultants, but I think this can be a perfectly acceptable role for a consultant. There are many situations where the client thinks they have a solution to a problem but wants someone to provide an objective opinion of whether they have got it right. This is exactly where a consultant can be particularly useful. People who think £500 per day is a lot should heed the advice given in #19 to get expert advice before they do it themselves. The reality is that this is only going to give you a reasonable and not great income. My favourite (relevant) story is an ex-employee being brought back to the company to advise them about the source of a major production problem. He entered the factory, drew a cross on the offending item and left. The company fixed the component and production returned to normal. However, they were taken aback to receive an invoice for £20k, even though the problem was costing them millions. They asked for an itemised bill to explain why the invoice was so much. The response was “£1 for the piece of chalk and £19,999 knowing where to draw the cross.”
pete48  
#32 Posted : 23 March 2013 21:57:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Andy, that is priceless; best last line in ages, thank you p48
Graham Bullough  
#33 Posted : 23 March 2013 22:43:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

andybz's story at #31 is similar to a tale I heard years ago of a plumber who charged a lawyer a significant sum of money for removing a large obsolete cast iron bath from his house. The lawyer remonstrated that the plumber was charging far too much for simply using one hit from a large hammer to cause the bath to shatter into manageable pieces, and demanded an itemised bill. The plumber promptly provided one which listed small sums for the physical tasks of hitting the bath and subsequently carrying away the pieces, plus a large sum for "the specialist skill and knowledge of knowing exactly where to strike the bath in order to cause it to shatter as required."
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