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PH2  
#1 Posted : 27 March 2013 14:46:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PH2

hserc  
#2 Posted : 27 March 2013 15:12:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

I agree with at least one statement made - "Common sense should have prevailed". But applied to the workers: there is no point whatsoever in having a safe system of work, if they don't use it when it does not suit them. Maybe a harsh decision overall, but disciplinary action certainly.
score  
#3 Posted : 27 March 2013 15:18:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
score

Absolutely ridiculous suspending these workers, surely stopping to fill in a small pot hole is admirable and probably only took a few minutes, enforcing the rules so strictly gives yet another reason to give H&S a bad name! hserc.... You do know its Wednesday and not Friday yet?
SP900308  
#4 Posted : 27 March 2013 15:27:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

score, they obviously put the public / themselves at considerable risk by doing this and not putting in place the necessary traffic management etc! This is exactly when and why accidents happen! 'only took a few minutes'...... it would only take a few minutes to pop up a ladder into a roof without the bother of all that harness and safety gear!
SP900308  
#5 Posted : 27 March 2013 15:29:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

'onto a roof'.....flippin buttons ;)
BernDaley  
#6 Posted : 27 March 2013 15:41:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BernDaley

If they are enforcing it then I wish they would have a look at manhole survey contractors & utilities surveyors (the few minutes tasks such as looking into a manhole to take measurements or read meters) & their fantastic traffic management (read non existent) (cones wrong size, only three per team: one in mh, one maning winch, one taking notes, signs not set as Chapter8 requirements, etc...)!!!! But they are wearing full high vis with long sleeve & trousers...
JohnW  
#7 Posted : 27 March 2013 15:50:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

I audit 'streetworks' every week, well, actually, utility work on footpaths/pavements, but that often means safety zones and temporary barriered footpaths that encroach on to a highway. So I know the hazards to traffic and pedestrians that can be created in 'just a few minutes' if insufficient care is taken to sign/warn traffic. I don't think the council should have suspended the workers. A quick streetworks toolbox talk would ensure they did not do the same thing again. Of course if there had been an accident then I'm sure they would be suspended, if they were still alive!
score  
#8 Posted : 27 March 2013 16:04:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
score

I am sorry but I still think the actions taken are well over the top, its clear from the picture that they just put some tarmac on the damaged area, they didn't repair it they patched it up which would have taken seconds.... And yes seconds are all you need to have an accident but come on lorries parking half way up pavements causing obstruction is far worse etc... etc....
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 27 March 2013 16:46:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Bear in mind the picture on the bbc page is more likely to be "a" pothole than "the" pothole. Without detail, comments can only speculate. I do find this statement worrying though: "The law says it was not safe. You need three or four people to fill in a pothole including two with 'Stop and Go' signs." A quote from a Councillor I accept, but I have to wonder where he got that idea of a universal requirement from? There will be instances where one man can use his (suitable) vehicle as a barrier to temporary fix a pothole forward of the vehicle, and the road allows a give-and-take system to operate.
chris42  
#10 Posted : 27 March 2013 16:55:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

If they were returning from a job then they had all the equipment and people necessary. 30 secs this time, one minute the next, next 2 minutes, where should it stop. They have only been suspended at the moment, they may not lose their jobs. A simple disciplinary surly would have been appropriate to make the point.
SP900308  
#11 Posted : 28 March 2013 08:40:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

chris42, It depends how seriously the company treats its management of Health and Safety! Difficult one to criticise for me...... How many times have I seen contractors not putting gate guards around open chambers, not carry out safe ladder practice etc. 'as it was only a quick job'. The results: An older Gentleman falling down an unguarded chamber sustaining serious and debilitating injuries and an technician falling from a ladder onto a low level wall resulting in broken ribs, split lung, fractured jaw etc. Both foreseeable and easily avoidable by following a good SSW!
JohnW  
#12 Posted : 28 March 2013 09:12:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

ron, you are right that for any streetwork there is not a universal procedure (even though the ACoP Chap 8 might suggest this). Narrow estate roads, village high streets and dual carraigeways present different problems, so the safety zones and barriers I mentioned earlier cannot be used in every situation, and you are right that some quick jobs can be more suitably protected just by suitably positioning the works vehicle with a blue/white direction sign at the back. In such circumstances utility companies will expect the operators to make brief note in the job's written specific risk assesment template doc to explain why no barriers etc., and that comes on to the point that SP made "how seriously the company treats its management of Health and Safety" - you'll find utility companies and councils who have a history of incidents or traffic accidents will be very particular in how work is done and how it is recorded. I know two utility companies who are very nervous right now, with a recent conviction following a fatal accident where a car drove down a 'closed' road that was not sufficiently signed.
Invictus  
#13 Posted : 28 March 2013 09:44:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

ron hunter wrote:
Bear in mind the picture on the bbc page is more likely to be "a" pothole than "the" pothole. Without detail, comments can only speculate. I do find this statement worrying though: "The law says it was not safe. You need three or four people to fill in a pothole including two with 'Stop and Go' signs." A quote from a Councillor I accept, but I have to wonder where he got that idea of a universal requirement from? There will be instances where one man can use his (suitable) vehicle as a barrier to temporary fix a pothole forward of the vehicle, and the road allows a give-and-take system to operate.
Ron, it is obviously a "pothole2 and not the "pothole" because for it to be the pothole this would mean nthat the photograph would have been taken just in case someone worked on it. For it to be the pothole it would have been repaired.
chris42  
#14 Posted : 28 March 2013 09:44:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Sp900308 I agree, this can't be condoned, but I generally feel that where possible an opportunity to mend their ways should also be given (once). Obviously for gross misconduct, it's different. I was going to say we don't know the w"hole" story, but it's not Friday yet.
Seabee81  
#15 Posted : 28 March 2013 11:19:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

Fair play to them for wanting to improve the road and fill in the pot hole. They do however have a safe system of work that they failed to follow, putting themselves and others at risk. Suspending them is a bit harsh in my opinion, but they clearly failed to follow procedure.
RayRapp  
#16 Posted : 28 March 2013 16:42:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

A reprimand would have sufficed in my opinion - after all, there were mitigating circumstances. If I suspended everyone at work who had not followed the rules to the letter I would end up with no one on site!
Ron Hunter  
#17 Posted : 28 March 2013 22:58:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Invictus wrote:
Ron, it is obviously a "pothole2 and not the "pothole" because for it to be the pothole this would mean nthat the photograph would have been taken just in case someone worked on it. For it to be the pothole it would have been repaired.
Yep. That was in response to #8 above.
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