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safetyman2010  
#1 Posted : 08 April 2013 09:23:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Hi If an employee fails to report an alleged accident at work (apparently occurred 3 months ago)and then claims an injury due to this accident was the reason for an absence period at a later date how would other safety professionals manage this? 1) If you discipline the employee for failure to report an accident as per company policy are you then accepting it has occurred? 2) During the follow up investigation into the alleged accident the employee stated he was not following the correct procedure as detailed in the SOP that resulted in this alleged accident. Again, if you follow this through the company disciplinary process are we by default accepting the accident took place. Any thoughts on the issue guys? thanks
ExDeeps  
#2 Posted : 08 April 2013 09:52:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Why so quick to apply the discipline policy? No wonder the IP didn't report. Why was he not following the SOP would be my question? was it not achievable, was he under pressure to do the task, has he been trained... etc. Leave discipline to HR and the line management, Sorry if this comes over as grumpy Jim
james fleming  
#3 Posted : 08 April 2013 10:12:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
james fleming

Disciplinary recommendations form the H&S person at work needs to be considered as part of a managed measured response and should not be left to HR or the line Management. They (HR / LM) might not have the expertise in recognising a breach in H&S and might need guidance or instruction. There are a number of ways at looking into the issue and will depend on your company and it’s reporting stance. On one hand, and I’m not suggesting your company is like this, if you have a sloppy reporting system, underused, staff not trained, repetitive late reporting procedure then there’s a wider issue to deal with. On another hand you could have all the bells and whistles in place. Why, on this occasion, has the person reported it very late. The cynical person might suggest there’s a claim underlying and that’s why there’s a late report. My thoughts would be to do a bit of a full investigation find out the WWWWW of it all and then act from there. Innocent till proven guilty and all that.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#4 Posted : 08 April 2013 10:14:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Take a step back. Why jump in so quickly to consider a disciplinary issue just to clean up your accident sheet? You may well be wrong and leave your company open to further litigation. Ask yourself if this has any similarity with the widespread and equal but opposite game of playing with words that is used by so many here to avoid reporting under RIDDOR and keep a clean sheet on their accident records. It hurts when it happens to you
safetyman2010  
#5 Posted : 08 April 2013 10:21:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

thanks for the replies. We do have a good reporting system that is working in 95% of cases and this is occassions is not the normal. We have dealt with it as as we would for all accident and completed the investigation. If the employee has done what he stated he has failed to follow the SOP he is trained and signed off on and the process is workable. We have issued a reminder to all applicable staff on importance of following this procedure and instructed the supervisors to monitor and enforce compliance more closely. The employees have a reporting system open to them to report anything they feel is unsafe if they need to raise concerns. If we dont follow through with disciplinary for failure to report something he alleges happens then i'm not sure what is the point having rules and procedures to start with. thanks
Juan Carlos Arias  
#6 Posted : 08 April 2013 11:50:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Juan Carlos Arias

Actually I agree with Safetyman here. If the procedure for reporting accidents is well embedded and document and people choose to ignore it, then disciplinary should be considered. Obviously also the level of it. It might just turn out to be a formal reminder of a file note. To answer your question. In my opinion you would not be accepting that the incident actually occurred if you took disciplinary action. Only make sure that you investigate the alleged incident properly.
billb70  
#7 Posted : 08 April 2013 12:41:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
billb70

Not reporting an accident at work can be a breach of company policy for sure and I would endorse some of the comments relating to going straight to disciplinary action also. However, the main issue to consider and the underlying issue of it all, is whether or not the injury actually happened and at work and the length of delay in reporting. I would suggest that three weeks would be unacceptable before a first report was provided. Unless there is some corroborating evidence i.e witness evidence etc. I would have great difficulty in accepting that this was indeed a bona fide incident at work, even though an employee could enter a report. I believe that it would be very difficult for an employee to prove that the incident indeed happened as a consequence of work should a claim be forthcoming. There is precedence of employees claiming to have injured themselves at work when the injury was actually caused outwith work. Sounds a bit cynical and lacking trust, I know.
ptaylor14  
#8 Posted : 08 April 2013 13:44:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

safetyman2010 wrote:
Hi If an employee fails to report an alleged accident at work (apparently occurred 3 months ago)and then claims an injury due to this accident was the reason for an absence period at a later date how would other safety professionals manage this? 1) If you discipline the employee for failure to report an accident as per company policy are you then accepting it has occurred? 2) During the follow up investigation into the alleged accident the employee stated he was not following the correct procedure as detailed in the SOP that resulted in this alleged accident. Again, if you follow this through the company disciplinary process are we by default accepting the accident took place. Any thoughts on the issue guys? thanks
Ask why the accident wasnt reported in the first place. This is a somewhat rhetorical question brought about by you use of the word alledged. Either the accident occured or it didnt, you obviously dont want to acknowledge the accident and as such you would discipline an individual rather than admit your own (company) failings to have easy reporting systems in place.
wjp62  
#9 Posted : 08 April 2013 17:49:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wjp62

Just a thought, but would this apparent injury have been reportable under RIDDOR?????
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#10 Posted : 08 April 2013 17:56:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

F500 wrote:
Just a thought, but would this apparent injury have been reportable under RIDDOR?????
With candour?
safetyman2010  
#11 Posted : 08 April 2013 18:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Thanks again for the responses. To respond to a statement made - 'This is a somewhat rhetorical question brought about by you use of the word alledged. Either the accident occured or it didnt, you obviously dont want to acknowledge the accident and as such you would discipline an individual rather than admit your own (company) failings to have easy reporting systems in place.' I certainly dont want to accept that an accident occurred as there is no proof to confirm that it did. Why would this be the incorrect stance to take? I have investigated the claim as per our accident procedures and while there is a possibility for an accident to have happened, the employee did not follow the defined and trained procedure to report it so it cant be proven. I can assure you we have a reporting system that works for 95% of the other 2 thousand members of staff and have made it very clear to everyone about the requirements for accident reporting. I do feel, as mentioned previously and from bitter experience, some people see their employer as an easy oppurtunity to make some easy money through EL Claims. If we simply say ok, it happened at work we accept it and go on and submit your claim we will be in a very bad way very soon and i will not be in a job for too long. Maybe i'm wrong......... (oh, reported to HSE for Over day accident to be safe but made them fully aware that is was an alleged accident due to the failure to report as RIDDOR was submitted so far past the alleged incident date).
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