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One of our branch managers has, at my request had their 5 year EICR carried out. I did ask them to use an electrician that was familiar with commercial installations, but the report is headed 'Domestic Electrical Installation Condition Report'.
The premises is a property office - think esate agent or letting agent.
My question is this - I have a C2 action, leading to an 'unsatisfactory condition' report - which could obviously impact on our insurance amongst other things.
The action is this:
Absence of RCD protection for portable or mobile equipment that may easonably be expected to be used outdoors.
There isn't anything the branch staff would plug into the fixed wiring outlets that would be used outdoors!
When I asked for clarification, the electrician came back and said, and I quote: 'Portable equipment could be anything from a Hoover to power washer how unlikely they are to you but COULD be used at some point outside of the building even a contractor using power tools or something outside hope this makes sense to you.'
Would I be right in querying this action, or does it still stand,with relevant remedial works needing to be carried out?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Nice one Nick H
You were right to state 'commercial' as this is NOT a domestic installation.
Use a 'real' electrician and not a 'domestic'. Before anyone has a pop at old Zimmy, the clue is in the wording and a 'real' electrician would know the difference between a domestic and commercial situation.
The C2 is correct for domestic and you would however be well advised to use RCD's on your circuits but that would be a design issue.
Rob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks Zimmy - I was hoping you (or Paul) would answer to be honest, as on electrical safety matters I tend to trust the information/ responses that you both provide.
As there are one or two C3's on the report that I do actually agree with, I'll be actioning this one myself I think and get a couple of commercial electrician quotes for remedial works. I'll also ask them to quote for RCD protection in the affected areas also.
I'm mindful of the adage of knowing what you don't know - hence the post as detailed electrical specifications are outside my level of competence. This is why I always request commercial electricians.
Thanks again.
Nick.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You now have mail Nick. And I think Paul my be having a nap... his age you know :-)
Rob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ditto - and thanks again.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Age & work load Mr Zimmer Frame! ;)
Time to get moderated again I think!
OK, the premises is commercial at the least.
IMHO a Domestic Electrical Installation Condition Report is not a valid document for a Commercial Installation.
Was he actually an "Electrician" or is "he" just a "Domestic Installer"?
Have you undertaken your "due diligence" on your contractor? ;)
Does "he" have adequate demonstrable competence as required under EAWR & BS7671 for this kind of installation?
Bearing in mind that BS7671 requires above average knowledge and competence to undertake such works, and, familiarity with the requirements of the regulations in force for the installation as installed.
i.e. the version of BS7671 in force at the time.
Does "he" have adequate and suitable insurance cover for this work?
In other words was the contractor competent to do this work, by now I think you can guess my opinion! ;)
One thing, I can guarantee even from here, is he was "cheap"!
Hmm, RCD's on commercial, OK, but no real need, "best practice" perhaps.
All of your employees are "instructed" and you have management policies in place.
Why should they be using electrical equipment outdoors?
Would your contractors?
You MUST be careful with the application of 30mA RCD's in commercial as a blanket approach.
You can have "high" earth leakage currents legitimately with "IT" equipment.
The accumulation of these could result in the visiting "Estate Agent" from another branch plugging in their perfectly serviceable laptop & tripping out the complete circuit.
This could be the correct reaction by the installation to the load as presented to it.
I would be very tempted NOT to protect the circuit at source, but, to install selected RCD sockets in vulnerable locations.
I do know some competent electrical contractors down on the "South Coast" that could be relied upon to provide a competent service. Depending on where you are.
I would stand to gain nothing from the introduction I hasten to add.
I regularly have robust discussions with my AE on such areas, mind, the way things are going we are beginning to agree on most things.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Old zimmy here... just , teeth falling out, legs bending under the burbedn of just coming back from exile (again)
Paul is correct regarding RCD use in commercial buildings, as I said its a design issue. As Paul says the use of RCD's should be thought about before being put into use as if used on computer circuits they can be a right pain.
I'm sure that both Paul and I will help in anyway possible. You have my number please don't be shy in its use Nick.
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Rank: Super forum user
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"if used on computer circuits they can be a right pain"
Especially if the IT installation includes UPS !
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