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Kate		#1 Posted : 24 May 2013 15:39:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Contractors spotted at height with no fall protection. "Is that how your method statement says you are going to access that?" "No, we're going to use the tower. But it's OK, we weren't doing any work." "You're being paid, right?" "We were only checking it. I thought it only mattered if we were drilling or cutting."
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Mr.Flibble		#2 Posted : 24 May 2013 15:48:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Perfectly logical to me Kate :P
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RayRapp		#3 Posted : 25 May 2013 09:00:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Kate, most accident investigations contain the words "I was only...I was just..."
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Kate		#4 Posted : 25 May 2013 09:04:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		That's a good point, Ray. I think I may gather some examples and use them as the basis of some awareness training.
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Mudmuppet		#5 Posted : 25 May 2013 19:19:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Should you be asking for the risk assessment? No fall protection needed if using a mobile tower for what it is designed. Please ignore if I have misinterpreted your post. On the point of method statement, I find companies ask for this too much in a method statement for simple tasks. With construction the 2nd paragraph 4th bullet point in the CDM ACOP about reducing bureaucracy is often forgotten. Keep it simple risk assessment with proper controls identified.
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Kate		#6 Posted : 26 May 2013 07:53:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Yes, you have misinterpreted! By "no fall protection" I mean standing by an unprotected edge with nothing whatsoever to prevent a fall, while the tower stands idly by.
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boblewis		#7 Posted : 27 May 2013 10:07:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		AAARRRGGGHHH That awareness word again. When can we stop using it and be precise as to what we are trying to do. Making people aware does not mean they will then put it into practice. When you ask people in the classroom situation they will always be aware of the stupidity of such actions. But they will still do it at work - why? This is what the course should be addressing. Bob
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Kate		#8 Posted : 27 May 2013 10:54:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		The word "awareness" is often misused, but this isn't one of those cases. There is nothing imprecise about making people aware of what some typical causes of accidents are. You will see this if you realise that most people think accidents don't have causes; that they "just happen". The point of making people aware in this way is that it enables conversations along the following lines: 'Why are you doing it that way?" "Because I'm only ..." "Do you remember when we talked about that in the session on the causes of accidents?"
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boblewis		#9 Posted : 27 May 2013 11:57:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Kate You are wanting them to do something therefore it cannot be awareness. Use the information in a constructive way with an end in view not just awareness. Bob
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Kate		#10 Posted : 27 May 2013 16:09:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I am first of all wanting them to know what kinds of things typically cause accidents. That is therefore awareness. I also want them not to do those things. That's the next stage and no training session on its own is capable of achieving this. The training only does the awareness bit - it's what happens after the training that does the rest.
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boblewis		#11 Posted : 27 May 2013 17:11:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Kate We are not going to agree. Awareness as you descibe is but an objective to be achieved in the context of a suitable training course. I personally feel very uncomfortable with the repeated use of Awareness Training. Bob
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Kate		#12 Posted : 27 May 2013 17:30:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I don't think we actually do disagree, Bob!
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Rhian Newton		#13 Posted : 27 May 2013 17:35:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I don't really care what we call it, or how we define it as long as we keep helping people to help themselves keep safe. That is what counts.
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David Bannister		#14 Posted : 28 May 2013 08:47:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Semantics. For me, making somebody aware of what or why is education. Teaching or showing them how to do something is training. Thus the consequences of a fall, the need for and how to devise and provide controls is educating those who need to know, whilst giving people the ability to use the controls and showing them how to use them and habituating their use is training. However, what really matters is preventing (or as a last resort stopping) the fall!
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boblewis		#15 Posted : 28 May 2013 11:54:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Or better still they can be enabled to apply the information to matters other than simply falls Bob
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