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harveyc  
#1 Posted : 14 June 2013 13:56:28(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
harveyc

Hi, I am extremely new to Health and Safety and would appreciate some advice. I was recently made redundant from an office job and decided to take a different career path. I therefore attended and passed the NEBOSH certificate. I have just started with a company who tests construction materials (concrete and soil testing etc). I am currently working on the chemicals and substances. There is a room where the chemicals are stored and used, this room is called the chemical lab. In the lab is a fumes cupboard (does the fumes cupboard come under the same regime for maintenance as the LEV, at least every 14 months? I will be advising staff that they should be carrying out daily pre-user checks and reporting any faults immediately). The fume cupboard does not have any storage therefore the chemicals are stored in a metal container storage unit which has no ventilation, no drip tray and the chemicals are all stored in this container. Some of the chemicals are Ethanol, Sulphuric Acid, Nitric Acid, Ammonia to name a few. The ammonia is so potent that you can smell it as soon as the storage cupboard door is open. Filter paper burning occurs in the lab so I would be advising that masks are worn, would the most suitable be the M3 FFP 2 valve respiratory mask? There is no other source of ventilation within this room. I would be extremely grateful for any help, advice. Thanks Claire
Kate  
#2 Posted : 14 June 2013 14:21:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

That sounds horrible. Yes, fume cupboards are a type of LEV and have to be tested accordingly. Usually, fume cupboards have chemical storage cabinets below them The chemicals you list shouldn't all be stored together. If you look on the HSE website under "Chemicals" you will find the guidance you need.
teh_boy  
#3 Posted : 14 June 2013 14:24:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

harveyc wrote:
1) (does the fumes cupboard come under the same regime for maintenance as the LEV, at least every 14 months? 2) chemicals are stored in a metal container storage unit which has no ventilation, no drip tray and the chemicals are all stored in this container. 3) ilter paper burning occurs in the lab so I would be advising that masks are worn, would the most suitable be the M3 FFP 2 valve respiratory mask? There is no other source of ventilation within this room. I would be extremely grateful for any help, advice. Thanks Claire
Hi Claire Only able to give a quick response - PM if you need more help 1) Yes - as it is an LEV system. 2) http://www.hse.gov.uk/chemicals/ http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/sr24.pdf (OK it's for retail but might help) Acid + metal - might = lots of rust! make sure no non-compatable materials are stored together - (HSE have some guidance on this in their warehousing guidance I think) 3) as for RPE - before you choose, can you do this within in the fumehood? if you have to use RPE - http://www.hse.gov.uk/re...ipment/how-to-choose.htm 4) CoSHH essentials might also be helpful to get you started with risk assessment http://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/essentials/ and don't forget to look after their skin! just providing gloves won't cut it, you need to ensure break through times are adequate, and good hygiene Chris Packham - will comment on that I hope :)
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 14 June 2013 14:59:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Yes what the others have said. As far as the use of RPE goes, we do not use it in labs unless it is absolutely necessary and then only as a back up for certain situations. In a lab you should always be relying on collective protective measures such as LEVs fumecupboards and the like.
Jane Blunt  
#5 Posted : 14 June 2013 15:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

You have some dangerous combinations stored together there. Separate the acids from the alkalis (ammonia), and keep the flammables away from the oxidising chemicals (nitric acid). If you don't have drip trays in the cupboards, make them up yourself by purchasing plastic trays. You say there is no ventilation in the room, but that there is a fume cupboard. There must be some source of make up air, otherwise the fume cupboard won't work. Have you investigated this equipment further to see what it is doing? Have your measured the face velocity and the containment? When did someone last do this?
chris.packham  
#6 Posted : 14 June 2013 16:19:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Ouch! From the limited information in your posting you have a real issue with the prevention of damage to skin due to chemical exposure. Just as an example, from the list you have given no one glove will provide adequate protection against them all. For example, the thin, single use nitrile gloves that I so often see being used in the laboratory will provide only a few seconds protection against many of these chemicals. Another problem with this type of situation is that your technicians may be dealing with mixtures. This can cause complications with glove selection and use. I can show you a glove that provides better than 240 minutes permeation breakthrough time with each of toluene and methyl ethyl ketone. However, if these are mixed 1:1 then the permeation time drops to just 9 minutes! With the case of Prof. Karen Wetterhahn, using an inadequate glove lead to her death. To be safe you will really need to analyse each task that is carried out (or possibly group the tasks in some way), establish what exposure might occur as a result and then (a) introduce technical controls, (b) define safe working practice and (c) if appropriate specify which glove and how frequently it will need to be changed. Check also that those using gloves have been suitably trained in glove removal. It makes little sense to wear a protective glove if, when removing, the hands become contaminated with the very chemical against which the glove has been protecting that person. You state that filter papers are burnt in that area. Are these clean or are they contaminated with chemicals. If the latter then consider what will then be in the environment! I would take the view that this should only be done in a suitable environment where any fume or chemical given off due to the burning is adequately removed. Keep in mind that a normal face mask will only protect the area of skin it covers. The other skin will be exposed and could result in systemic or allergic reactions. Chris
sadlass  
#7 Posted : 14 June 2013 17:16:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

Hi Claire. This is a complicated situation, and you have had a wealth of advice. However, you have outlined your background and IMHO you appear to be at risk of being overwhelmed. My advice is that you discuss this with your boss, and suggest that an investment in your own development and in getting a high standard of advice is called for: to commission a recommended expert in lab / chemical safety / occ hygiene to come in and work WITH you, to educate and assist, as a peer coach. Don't be persuaded to go off on 'a course', or contract it to a specialist completely. But if you are as inexperienced as you say, however conscientious, you cannot learn it all on the hoof. I am a believer in having a go, but knowing your limitations. You could do it by invest effort in setting out your own approach and solutions, and then have someone come in to check (critical friend) if you prefer. From then on your confidence and ability will be greatly bolstered I'm sure. Good CPD!
leadbelly  
#8 Posted : 14 June 2013 18:38:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
leadbelly

Claire You should consider using a competent occupational hygienist to help you. You can find one here: http://www.bohs.org/OHSe...es-directory/a-z-search/ LB
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