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rmlewis  
#1 Posted : 26 June 2013 11:43:40(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
rmlewis

Hi All,

Feeling a bit downhearted today after our Staff health and safety meeting.
We have always had a Health and Safety Committee and we have always had regular Health and Safety meetings but of late the staff seem to have stopped engaging with the meetings (me?) and less and less staff are attending even tough I am making more and more effort to make the meetings interesting and informative.
Over the past few months I have done a lot to improve the HS of the organisation, updated all our policies and procedures and created a user friendly staff handbook, developed a training side to the meetings whereby we try to cover a different topic each month, had activities for committee members to complete like working on scenario pictures ( which those attended seemed to really enjoy) however, attendance at the meetings is so unpredictable and low on most occasions at best! On a few occasions now I have had to cancel the meeting due to lack of numbers and it is really starting to take its toll on me now. I'm not sure how else I can get people to attend?

I have reminded them of our duty to have the meetings and because we are a complex organisation with different departments we need reps from each department to attend. I know we have been through a lot of changes recently in terms of staffing and structures but the lack of attendance is really starting to get to me now. In addition, even when I have sent documents etc to individual department managers to complete such as risk assessments or training needs analysis forms I am getting very few responses.

Any advice on how I can improve the situation? Any advice on how I can get members of staff to value HS? Or any advice generally for maintaining my own motivation when it seems like others don't have any at all?

sorry for the negative posting :)

Ryan
walker  
#2 Posted : 26 June 2013 11:54:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Maybe its more a reflection on the organisation, rather than you.

Are the participants being pressured by their bosses not to attend?
If they are overloaded with their "normal work" something has to give somewhere.
walker  
#3 Posted : 26 June 2013 11:56:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

A director once said to me " the only time most people take an interest in health and safety is whilst they are waiting for the ambulance to arrive".
Jake  
#4 Posted : 26 June 2013 11:57:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

Hi buddy, there are many answers to this and probably multiple anlges to tackle this from. I will mention just 1 that has worked for me recently.

You need to identify why the attendance is so low. Is this because they can't be bother? Is it because their workload is too great and they deprioritised attending the meeting? Have they been told by their line manager they can't "waste" time attending? etc. etc.

You need to develop skills akin to a project manager operating in a matrix management structure (i.e. one where the project team comprises persons that are not line managed by the project manager - they are part of the project as an "add on" to their day job. Google "project managing in a matrix management structure" or a similar phrase and lots of hints and tips will be thrown up.

What can you do? The key here is to Network and develop Personal Authority. Your delegates are much more likely to attend if their line manager buys into what you are doing and either convinces them it is a good idea or just tells them to attend (and adds their attendance to your meets as part of their performance metrics).

So network with relevant line managers, gain buy-in from them, get them to understand where you are going and the help you need by a strong attendance and ask them to promote / facilitate individual attendance.

Just 1 angle, and it may be something you are already doing, but has worked wonders when I reassessed the issues I was facing recently.
David Bannister  
#5 Posted : 26 June 2013 13:20:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Maybe the staff do not feel the need to attend because they feel you are doing a good job.

It may assist to define the purpose of the meetings, what will be achieved by having them and what is failed to achieve by poor attendance.

Is it a meeting for meeting's sake? Consultation need not be by formal meetings.
achrn  
#6 Posted : 26 June 2013 13:49:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Jake wrote:

What can you do? The key here is to Network and develop Personal Authority. Your delegates are much more likely to attend if their line manager buys into what you are doing and either convinces them it is a good idea or just tells them to attend (and adds their attendance to your meets as part of their performance metrics).


I don't believe networking (urgh) and personal authority (double urgh) are relevant. They won't account for more than 2% of the decision to attend the meeting or not. In my view, no-one attends a health and safety meeting because the bloke at the front is a great guy who really knows where his towel is.

While I try and make meeting engaging and interesting and so on, I am under no illusion that people come to the meeting because they want to see me - and actually, that's rightly so. If they are going to meetings just because the meeting is entertaining, that's not actually in the interests of the company.

It is correct to say that people attend when their superior thinks it is important. If the line-manager's first question when walking and talking was 'did you go to the last safety meeting?' followed by 'what did you take from it and put into practice' there'd be an instantaneous leap in attendance, I'm sure. The line managers would say that if their boss was asking them 'how many of your people attend the safety meetings regularly?'. And so on up the chain.

Saying Ryan should buck up and develop some personal authority is unhelpful, and unlikely to be the cause or solution to the problem.

Get board-level directors into the meeting. Get the MD to the meeting, preferably early (ie, not dashing in at the last moment) and being attentive. Of course, depending on your MD that may be a forlorn aspiration, but if you can achieve it, I think it will have more impact on attendance than any amount of refining or tinkering with what actually happens in the meeting.

Good luck.

Jake  
#7 Posted : 26 June 2013 14:00:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

@achrn you've either slightly misinterpreted what I meant or we'll just have to disagree!

The comment re networking and personal authority is to accomplish with line managers, not the attendees themself (you suggest this with the para re that this doesn't impact on attendees much, which I agree).

I also agree getting senior level leaders into the meetings, though we must accept that this is not always possible (but I do believe influencing line managers of the attendees you want in the room to be realistic for every organisation).

In any case, adopting this approach has worked well for me (where due to the organisation structure getting a leadership team member along to the meetings is impractical) so I felt I should share 1 possible route to take.
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 26 June 2013 15:27:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Rmlewis
From your original posting it seems that you, the H&S professional is running the H&S meeting. Why?
The H&S meeting should be an opportunity for the management and workers to get together to discuss H&S issues. The H&S person’s job is to facilitate and provide advice not run the meeting. If neither the management nor the workers are interested then why have a meeting?
I do not think that senior managers should just be invited to the meeting; they should be running the meeting. As far as I am concerned H&S is just another management responsibility (finance and HR issues)
Remember the legal requirement to have H&S committee is based on a request from the workforce (see Section 2(7) Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 to confirm this).
KieranD  
#9 Posted : 26 June 2013 15:58:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

rmlewis

May I respond mainly to your question 'Or any advice generally for maintaining my own motivation when it seems like others don't have any at all?'

If, as your 'Public Services' classification suggests, you are operating in the public sector, the situation may well fit a response to severe economic pressure under which public sector staff function and have done for decades. So, pacing yourself according to what is possible is necessary to avoid the downward spiral of burnout.

I'm reminded of a 'quiet hero' (PG) I worked with in a large public sector outfit who realised how his main impact lay in influencing senior managers, a task at which he became so skilful he was headhunted to become a senior H & S manager in a large police force and from there was again headhunted into a very senior role in the MoD, where his remit extends across several battle theatres. He was slow but never unwilling to challenge but his talent lay in diplomacy.

As in HR, those who succeed in this style are adept at reading the subcultures within their organisations. A good guide to doing so with regard to safety is 'Safety Culture', J Taylor, Gower, 2010 who applies the research on organisational culture by the guru in this area, Edgar Schein, whose titles 'Culture and Leadership' and 'Helping the Client' can be use to change walls into doors in the unassuming strong style that PG mastered.


NigelB  
#10 Posted : 26 June 2013 16:35:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NigelB

Ryan

A range of comments have been made so I'll make the following points:

1 The health and safety committee could be chaired by the most senior executive. Many moons ago a moribund H&S Forum in a very large utility company asked - and got - the Operations Director to chair the meetings. The impact on operational Regional managers and local managers was illuminating. Over the years I have heard several CEOs claim they were the organisation's Chief Safety Officer and used their role as H&S Committee chair as part of the evidence.

2 What do people want? Many H&S committees 'spin in their own orbit': where does the Committee sit in the business? What annual plan does it have - does this sit as part of the organisation's business plan? What budget does it have?

Many years ago Safety Reps used to be given an exercise. It was to decide what was most important in an organisation and identify how decisions around this key issue were made; finance allocated, lead executive etc. Then they were asked to compare this issue with how health and safety decisions were made. Often H&S was more of a 'seat of the pants' process. Others, of course, had so many H&S priorities progressing them all become nigh on impossible. This kind of contrast can reveal organisational and accountability weaknesses that may be addressed.

3 If issues are taken as projects, how are the general principles of prevention applied to priorities? Giving people a challenge to solve problems - teams - may get some interested, especially if senior executives act directly as 'champions' to individual issues/projects. There are many examples where this has led to success, which has then inspired others to follow the same approach. If the senior executive becomes accountable for delivery, this can assist, depending on the individual executive, of course. In one organisation board directors took the lead for specific health and safety topics and had to report back progress directly to the CEO. This can help define a clearer role for a H&S committee.

Of course if it was easy all H&S committees would be functioning well. People support what they help create. A starting point might be to ask the committee members why the attendance is down and what do they think could be done to improve the situation. This might give some leads as to how to approach the situation with senior colleagues.

Cheers.

Nigel


Nicola Kemmery  
#11 Posted : 26 June 2013 18:52:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Nicola Kemmery

I would support a lot of Nigel's comments.

My operational Director chairs our H&S meeting and it is attended by senior managers from the main business areas who work alongside the TU H&S Reps. My role is more a facilitative and support one - bringing issues and ideas and keeping the process in line.

I believe that one of the reasons that the TU Reps attend because they can see that their ideas are valued and that they have direct access to senior managers who have the power and influence to steer the direction of the business and make improvements.

As safety professionals we are often keen to take everything on ourselves and try and fix things. What we need to also be able to do is to engage with managers and leaders and help them to take the lead.

I hope this is useful and don't give up hope!
Zimmy  
#12 Posted : 26 June 2013 19:29:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I'd listen to Kieran. For my money, a wise man
Kate  
#13 Posted : 26 June 2013 20:07:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

One way that has worked for me is showing them that they are valued - approaching them individually face to face and expressing the hope that they'll attend - only the ones I actually do value, of course!
Ron Hunter  
#14 Posted : 26 June 2013 23:18:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

rmlewis wrote:
............Over the past few months I have done a lot to improve the HS of the organisation, updated all our policies and procedures and created a user friendly staff handbook, developed a training side to the meetings whereby we try to cover a different topic each month......... I have sent documents etc to individual department managers to complete such as risk assessments or training needs analysis forms......... I am getting very few responses.
Ryan



I may be picking you up wrong, but my reading of your post does tend to resonate with A Kurdziel. Too much is revolving around you?
Are there issues with ownership here? Was there appropriate involvement and stakeholder engagement with all these document updates - was that staff handbook what the 'customer' wanted, was there appropriate authority behind those requests to 'complete' risk assessments ("Complete"?: did you start them, or do you consider what others have done to be incomplete?).
What are others getting out of these meetings? What are there expectations? What is their role at the meeting?
"Working on scenario pictures" may well be 'fun' but is this really best use of valuable time? The meetings may well be 'interesting and informative' but what is the purpose of the meeting? Are there appropriate Terms of reference? Are there short, medium and long term objectives?
CarlT  
#15 Posted : 27 June 2013 13:08:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CarlT

Ryan,

lots of good comments here.
I run a monthly H&S meeting and my experience has been that I get regular attendances and usually some lively interaction as well.
I am a short, fat, balding 50+ sort of bloke and I am not that terrific at speaking either so I know it isn't me they are coming to see.

What I would say is this:
If you don't get senior management involved forget it. I always try to have at least 1 director in each month but even if they can't come I ask them for some input.
Also, if you don't talk to the employees during the normal working week, show an interest in what they are doing and ask about their needs,concerns etc, forget it.

I hope things pick up for you
Regards
Carl
ctd167  
#16 Posted : 28 June 2013 13:38:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ctd167

I've found the provision of bacon butty's to be a great help ;-)
colinreeves  
#17 Posted : 28 June 2013 13:45:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

carlt wrote:

I am a short, fat, balding 50+ sort of bloke and I am not that terrific at speaking either so I know it isn't me they are coming to see.


Oyy, you resemble me!!
IanDakin  
#18 Posted : 28 June 2013 14:00:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Samosas and cake. And if they are tasty enough, I am happy to do a guest speaker spot!
kinning  
#19 Posted : 10 April 2015 18:29:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kinning

Hi, I understand where you are coming from as we recently had the same problem where I work. We put a number of people from various departments on Managing Safely Course and a one day course for senior management so they get an understanding of h and s. This has changed the helped changed the culture of h and s. Try not to get too discouraged I am sure it's not you it's how people perceive h and s
bob youel  
#20 Posted : 10 April 2015 19:28:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

you [& H&S] are more than likely suffering because of the area u are operating in e.g; -

Hundreds of millions going out of the budgets year on year, people overworked and in many many many cases being TUPE to private businesses or none traditional areas of LA's etc. who know nothing of their work where the staff do not want nor need it, unions being toothless and pensions being frozen

The list goes on and on people think that H&S has let them down especially with regards stress and people are afraid of their jobs & future whilst at the same time the politicians are gaining all the time especially with their wage rises and their pet areas e.g. safeguarding, wellbeing, NHS joined up working etc. getting all the dosh and CEO's being well rewarded because of their cost cutting and TUPE work --- this situation, especially hundreds of millions going out of the budgets year on year is completely alien to those in private business

How do U make things better; well there is no easy answer especially where the EHO's that work for your organization are also toothless to an extent and are also suffering so they cannot help and the HSE, well enough said. ---- Try to weather the storm and once the corner is turned re the current rounds of cost cutting then things may get better but only if the CEO see's that there is some kudos to be gained for themselves personally - or move into the private sector

I think that you can tell that I have been there - best of luck
RayRapp  
#21 Posted : 13 April 2015 09:24:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Not read all the posts so apologies if my comments have been mentioned. I have found a similar problem and I try this formula. Get a senior manager on board who will commit to supporting AND attending your h&s meeting. When sending out the invitation make sure attendance is mandatory or better still, get your senior manager to endorse the mandatory meeting, but also include that if the person cannot attend for any good reason they send a deputy from their team.
Tigers  
#22 Posted : 13 April 2015 10:26:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

I have found the press comments on reducing the H&S burden the most negative. So try to excite interest by quoting stats from FFI and corporate manslaughter to focus Heads of service in my quarterly reports to Management.

Perhaps your insurers can supply Managing Safely or Directing safely to help the cause, I know Zurich do offer these.

I occasionally re- issue INDG417 (leading health
and safety at work - LEADERSHIP ACTIONS FOR DIRECTORS AND BOARD MEMBERS
matelot1965  
#23 Posted : 13 April 2015 11:13:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

I bet you would get an influx of people to attend if you told them that the next H+S meeting was down the pub
stuie  
#24 Posted : 13 April 2015 12:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stuie

Or at a swanky hotel with a posh lunch provided? Sent out the invites - then at the last minute change the venue - at least you know people will have the time in their diary??
chris42  
#25 Posted : 14 April 2015 09:08:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I don't disagree with all the above with regard to getting a senior person on board. However a number of years ago I had a very similar set of issues, where I took over from someone else ( who was still going to be working there) but they had let the meeting disintegrate. Representatives could not be bothered the management the same and they just stopped.

I had to get it going again, and my starting point was to go and talk one to one with each of the reps and ask why. It turned out in my case that they felt the management were full of excuses and were paying lip service.

When I then spoke to the managers & directors they said they had given up because the reps were not engaging in the process.

It was only once I found out what their problems actually were that I could change things. Promised the reps that management would be more engaged, promised the managers the same. I put a lot of work into ensuring we the management did not turn up and say nothing had been done. I made a point of seeking out the reps in between meetings and keeping them informed, especially if things were not going to plan. They at least felt there was effort being put in. Over time I ended up with people activly joining in and going out of their way in their own time to contribute.

You will have different issues I'm sure but I think your starting point should be go talk to them in confidence. This will allow them to dob their managers in if they are the ones preventing them going to the meetings etc.

One other thought are you holding the meeting too frequently, as they say sometime less is more. Just a thought.

Chris



A Kurdziel  
#26 Posted : 14 April 2015 11:25:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The tread that came back from the dead; two years is that a record?
Anyway, I will add my bit. One problem is that the original poster is trying to use the H&S meeting as a universal forum, where all H&S matters are dealt with, including a bit of training, plus agitation and propaganda as well as the business stuff. Such a meeting can become disorganised and lacking in focus. So how abound this:
1.A H&S management meeting to focus on the clear deliverables; stuff which you apply the SMART process to, looking at leading and lagging indicators, reviewing policies etc. It should be short (1 hour-long) and to the point. Task should be assigned to participants who are expected to deliver outcomes by the next meeting
2.Opportunities to discuss H&S ideas; micro-teaches about an issue such as COSHH, WAH or manual handling. Focus on the training and learning aspects.
3.Feedback sessions. Informal get others with teams, perhaps as part of routine team meetings or comms cells. An opportunity for the H&S bods to listen to staff, rather than spend time talking at them.
cres  
#27 Posted : 14 April 2015 16:43:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cres

I agree with the other foodies, sometimes we just have to admit that its only us that truely enjoy H&S and so if you need to bribe people to attend then so be it CAKE and Buiscuits work every time. I always walk through the managers office or workshop with all the bags of cakes and they all follow me to the meeting like the pide piper. They relax and start to engage and we always acheive a huge amount. In my experience dont be to formal with the meetings you can still adress serious topics but if its too formal people just switch off.
Jamie1975  
#28 Posted : 16 April 2015 09:02:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jamie1975

My advice would be to look or go back to basics - try and establish the roots of the problem and the culture drivers in H&S, then get them on board and work through the issues of low attendance
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