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Psycho  
#1 Posted : 03 July 2013 15:00:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

Hi All we use covers in the childrens area someone has pointed out that they are not protective are not safe and pose a massive risk they have read this site http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/ what would you do are they safe to use or not
chas  
#2 Posted : 03 July 2013 16:09:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

This topic was discussed recently. I think you will find opinions from both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. Have a look at the following; http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...spx?g=posts&t=109235
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 03 July 2013 16:46:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

A risk, yes -but not a massive one. The debate centres on the logic of defeating the built-in safety shutters in our electrical sockets by inserting a plastic dummy plug. The Electrical Safety Council (as I recall) published a balanced-view statement which is worthy of adoption. Part of the problem perhaps is that those who regulate the Industry (child care) may still be insisting these things are fitted. IMHO they offer only a false sense of security and are no substitute for supervision. Far better of course to relocate the sockets in these areas.
SocketMan  
#4 Posted : 04 July 2013 07:09:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SocketMan

Not just the issue of defeating the built-in safety shutters but the fact that oversize pins in socket covers cause damage to the contacts which can result in arcing and overheating when the socket is actually used to deliver power. (Socket covers tend to have oversize pins in an effort to make them harder to remove.) The Electrical Safety Council actually ignores the problem, the IET has a better handle on it, see what the guy in charge of the wiring regulations thinks: “Socket-outlets to BS 1363 are the safest in the world and have been since they were first designed in the 1940s. Socket protectors are not regulated for safety, therefore, using a non-standard system to protect a long established safe system is not sensible.” Taken from: http://electrical.theiet...-protectors.cfm?type=pdf The statement from MK (leading manufacturers of sockets) on the FatallyFlawed website is also telling.
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 04 July 2013 11:21:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I believe the IET and ESC are in accord. I have a copy here of: Electrical Safety Council Policy Statement: Child Safety - Socket Blanking Plugs Issue Date: June 2008 which states: "In the opinion of the Electrical Safety Council, there is no "significant risk" to children from 13 Amp socket-outlets fully conforming to the product standard BS 1363. Having integral safety shutters, they are widely judged to be of the safest design currently installed in Europe, and the Electrical Safety Council is not aware of any incident data to suggest that there is any real or potential problem with this type of socket-outlet. This position has also been taken by the BSI technical committee responsible for BS 1363. It is arguable that fitting a blanking plug into a socket-outlet will reduce the risk of electric shock to a child even further, since it will make access to electricity even more difficult. Whether it is justifiable to require their use in certain environments is less clear. There is always some risk of electric shock with any electrical equipment and the decision on how much risk is acceptable is ultimately subjective. Absolute safety can be achieved only by the permanent removal of the electricity supply. Babies and toddlers are inherently risk-prone and should never be left unattended and allowed to 'play' with socket-outlets. Eternal vigilance is the only reliable safeguard in this respect, as is the case with any other potential (and frequently much greater) hazard that they might encounter."
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#6 Posted : 04 July 2013 11:35:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

I have no particular knowledge of this issue. Though I have read various 'horror stories' of what might happen, and seen various pieces on TV, I'm not aware of any incident. I assume it must have occurred somewhere and at some time, though I would surmise this is not a major issue when balanced against the number of plugs, sockets and fingers to be considered. On the obverse are those who have their house burned down or worse, lose a child to avoidable electrocution. But in raising this thread and in subsequent discussion, as much as anywhere, is there not a case for full names and affiliations on the Forum? Many have different views about the use of 'Forum names'. In this particular thread, it is important to consider any vested or conflict of interest. The OP and one other choose to hide behind their Forum names but I suspect they do indeed have a potential conflict of interest. This conflict may be assumed by many, and perhaps wrongly in which case some openness would dispel all doubt. As it is, we don't know and we aren't told. That is a difficult and at times uncomfortable situation. It would be regrettable if it were to stand in the way of a worthy cause, but similarly those who are selling product need to make it clear and not hide behind a safety campaign that is intended to benefit the campaigner more than those who may be at risk
Chris G  
#7 Posted : 04 July 2013 12:31:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris G

At the end of the day, whatever we do electrical systems will always provide inherent levels of risk. I have the physical scars from inserting one of my mums hair pins into a BS 13A socket so they are not fool proof. But I can see the dangers of poor quality safety devices that are also out there. If you want to stop access into a socket then I'd have thought a cover more like those for outside sockets with some sort of lock seperate for the electrical contacts would be the way to go? They'd form a permament part of the socket unit but would be more secure. Are there such a thing?
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 04 July 2013 12:44:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The views expressed here or by the Industry Bodies are I fear irrelevant. It is my understanding that the Regulaory Body for Child Care premises insist these covers are fitted. No covers = failed inspection? This may be the OP's experience.
Zimmy  
#9 Posted : 04 July 2013 12:45:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Save your money :-) And that is from someone who works in the field of electrical safety. Look after the child, put him/her in a play pen etc. Come to think of it, some electricians should be kept away from socket outlets!
SocketMan  
#10 Posted : 04 July 2013 16:28:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SocketMan

In the past some Ofsted inspectors have made unauthorized criticisms of child care settings not using socket covers, but that was inconsistent with Ofsted policy. Ofsted clarified their position in 2011, stating that "Inspectors should not set actions or make recommendations in relation to the use of socket covers and should not refer specifically to these in their reports." see page 11 of this document: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk...s%20September%202011.pdf Regarding the ESC position, the statement quoted completely fails to recognize that oversize pins on socket covers cause damage to sockets. This is completely inconsistent with their position on other products such as plug-top chargers where they warn of the damage caused by oversized pins! The IET article recognizes the dangers of socket damage, as well as the danger of shutters left permanently open when the "earth" pins of socket covers break off in situ. The complete lack of regulation for socket covers results in no action being taken against vendors of socket covers not meeting the dimensional and strength requirements demanded of plugs.
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