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As long as the girls have a choice John, that is all they ask. The had enough guts to work in munitions factories during the war and paid the price...(not to mention the girls hanging out where the fast bullets fly) Hats off to the girls I think gents.
i don't blame them for not shouting to go down a big hole in the ground, you'd not get me there either :-)
Zimmy going soft?
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Julie
Somewhere at home I've got a photocopy of an old document about the proposed merger of the Women's Factory Inspectorate with the main Factory Inspectorate during the 1920s. I recall that, among other matters, the document advised inspectors that they should use discretion and heed any employers who expressed preferences about which gender of inspector inspected certain types of premises, e.g. women inspectors for premises where women were predominantly employed, and male inspectors for premises such as salt works where men tended to wear scanty clothing because of significantly hot steamy conditions.
Do you recognise the document from the above description and already have a copy from another source? If not, and you think the document might be of use/interest to you for your article, please let me know and I'll try to have a good look for my copy over the next week or so.
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zimmy wrote:As long as the girls have a choice John, that is all they ask. The had enough guts to work in munitions factories during the war and paid the price...(not to mention the girls hanging out where the fast bullets fly) Hats off to the girls I think gents.
i don't blame them for not shouting to go down a big hole in the ground, you'd not get me there either :-)
Zimmy going soft?
Yes, hook line and sinker.
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I have worked in health and safety both as an inspector and an advisor / manager for over 20 years now. I feel the profession is very much male dominated especially in certain sectors such as construction. I have experienced some initial retisense when I turn up on site but as soon as people realise you know what you're talking about and you're able to communicate your ideas and issues properly any prejudice soon vanishes.
I find that staff respond well to a woman - they tend to open up a bit more.
I am almost certain however that as a female Health & Safety Manager I do not receive the same type of salary as many of my male counterparts.
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Reed21854 wrote:I have worked in health and safety both as an inspector and an advisor / manager for over 20 years now. I feel the profession is very much male dominated especially in certain sectors such as construction. I have experienced some initial retisense when I turn up on site but as soon as people realise you know what you're talking about and you're able to communicate your ideas and issues properly any prejudice soon vanishes.
I find that staff respond well to a woman - they tend to open up a bit more.
I am almost certain however that as a female Health & Safety Manager I do not receive the same type of salary as many of my male counterparts.
Many thanks for your posting and personal viewpoint. We are going to evaluate the data from the IOSH salary survey to breakdown the gender differences, so we should be able to identify if there is a general spilt. We will also be able to see the breakdown of genders within industries, so the data should be very enlightening. Kindest regards Julie
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Graham Bullough wrote:Julie
Somewhere at home I've got a photocopy of an old document about the proposed merger of the Women's Factory Inspectorate with the main Factory Inspectorate during the 1920s. I recall that, among other matters, the document advised inspectors that they should use discretion and heed any employers who expressed preferences about which gender of inspector inspected certain types of premises, e.g. women inspectors for premises where women were predominantly employed, and male inspectors for premises such as salt works where men tended to wear scanty clothing because of significantly hot steamy conditions.
Do you recognise the document from the above description and already have a copy from another source? If not, and you think the document might be of use/interest to you for your article, please let me know and I'll try to have a good look for my copy over the next week or so.
Many thanks Graham for your posting, I would be very interested to see a copy of the proposal. It is interesting reading some of the news articles around this time and the concerns about female inspectors. Many thanks Graham, my email is julieriggs@btinternet.com
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Gunner1 wrote:zimmy wrote:As long as the girls have a choice John, that is all they ask. The had enough guts to work in munitions factories during the war and paid the price...(not to mention the girls hanging out where the fast bullets fly) Hats off to the girls I think gents.
i don't blame them for not shouting to go down a big hole in the ground, you'd not get me there either :-)
Zimmy going soft?
Yes, hook line and sinker.
Take no notice Zimmy, I would say reflective and pragmatic :-)
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HSE has more female inspectors now because it chose to. It had to be seen to redress the balance. Note that (as far as I am aware) there is a still a legal challenge that female inspectors are paid less!
There are good and bad females and males in the industry. Personality type not gender dictates soft skills etc. I've seen good and bad. Possibly men are less likely to be downright rude to me as I'm female. The worse verbal abuse I got was from a woman oddly enough. Women in industry can have fragile egos in my experience. They can also be more ruthless.
Is there still discrimination? Too right. Been on the receiving end as have most females.....I'm sure some males have been too!
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Could it not be the case that females generally have more time off work than their male counterparts.
I hope this is factored in to any survey!
The world of economics is often a brutal one.
Jon
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Jon
Am I right in assuming that you mean career breaks whilst on maternity leave?
M
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No - fathers get leave of a sort nowadays. Two weeks I believe.
Jon
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David Bannister wrote:In nearly 40 years or work I have only once experienced any situation where my gender was an issue. As a very young insurance surveyor I once lost my trousers in the ladies toilet of a footwear factory to a gang of very frisky women after they gave me false directions. I was just giving in to the inevitable when I was sadly rescued by a manager! That was in a tough Lancashire mill town.
Is this the plot of a new Ben Elton comedy?
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Jon - sorry, I must be missing the point then.....is there evidence that women take more time off work than men? I had assumed that you meant maternity leave (or extended career breaks to look after young children) but perhaps you didn't? Would be interested to see the stats.
M
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In fact maternity leave can run to a year. A sizeable amount of time for small businesses to cope with.
But I too am intrigued as to why John says women take off more time from work than men, if he's not referring to maternity leave.
John, care to enlighten us? Statistics or your opinion?
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A review of the literature and in particular the Benenden Healthcare Society report commissioned in 2011 provides sufficient authority. Researchers at the University of Helsinki provided similar results in 2008.
I have my own irrefutable evidence from my own workplace.
Hope this helps.
Jon
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John M wrote: A review of the literature and in particular the Benenden Healthcare Society report commissioned in 2011 provides sufficient authority. Researchers at the University of Helsinki provided similar results in 2008.
Jon
I seem to recall the former, based on a survey of 1000m & 1000f employees, found women took 49 more days off over a working lifetime; just over a day a year I guess. Most of that’s probably the unequal share of ’unplanned’ childcare demands.
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OMG, I hope the sisterhood has not departed the workplace "en masse" to review the literature.
No matter- the evidence has been submitted and the responses so far - well - not challenging at all.
Jon
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Jon
A day a year for a sample of 1000 + 1000 might not be statistically significant.
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Found the Telegraph 'report of the report' and have attached below.....makes for interesting reading and frankly does not match my personal experiences here (500 plus employer) Here I've found that there are two groups - those that soldier on and those that don't and the gender does not seem to make much of a difference as to which group is which.
http://www.telegraph.co....-sick-days-than-men.html
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Moottoppers asked for stats. Moottoopers was provided with the stats.
You take them as provided or else reject them. I would be interested to learn of contra stats.
Jon
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John M wrote: A review of the literature and in particular the Benenden Healthcare Society report commissioned in 2011 provides sufficient authority. Researchers at the University of Helsinki provided similar results in 2008.
I have my own irrefutable evidence from my own workplace.
Hope this helps.
Jon
That's not stats, it's not evidence, and sure as hell it's not irrefutable.
"my own irrefutable evidence from my own workplace" is simply not worth the electrons engaged to commit it to the computer page. It's a nonsense comment of no value whatsoever.
Likewise, the pretence of a citation of original research that directs only to a newspaper article is at best sloppy and unhelpful since it does not furnish the reader with an opportunity to critically review the evidence.
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John, despite Ian being a bit heavy handed in his wording, what he is essentially trying to say is not wrong IMO.
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I feel the need to stick up for Jon at this point as it was I who linked to a newspaper article and not Jon.
Jon quoted the original research which I didn't have time to look at yesterday and hence I googled the article instead to find a short summary. I then found the Telegraph 'precis' rather entertaining and hence linked it for you lovely lot!
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I wonder if there ever was anything more than a press release based on the 'survey'. I doubt there was a published peer reviewed paper.
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Clairel wrote:John, despite Ian being a bit heavy handed in his wording, what he is essentially trying to say is not wrong IMO.
A bit heavy handed in his wording, that's an understatement coming from you Clairel. Elements of Ian's response were abit harsh to say the least.
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