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richp  
#1 Posted : 16 August 2013 09:32:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
richp

It appears the HSE have gone ahead and withdrawn the Management ACOP. The HSE Books entry for L21 now states:

The Management of Health and Safety at Work Approved Code of Practice (ACOP – L21) has been withdrawn and is no longer available. If you are looking for information on how to manage risks in your business, HSE has a suite of guidance that will be able to help. Each level of guidance on HSE’s website offers appropriately targeted information, focussed on making compliance as straightforward as possible.

Ref: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l21.htm

The page refers readers to the new online HSG65.

Oddly enough, i cannot recall the press release for HSG65 mentioning the withdrawal of the ACOP.





walker  
#2 Posted : 16 August 2013 10:15:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

The ACOP might have gone but the Reg hasn't
I see no reason not to continue to follow the advice in the "old" ACOP

By the way - where is a down loadable version of the new HSG 65?
teh_boy  
#3 Posted : 16 August 2013 10:48:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

walker wrote:
The ACOP might have gone but the Reg hasn't
I see no reason not to continue to follow the advice in the "old" ACOP


But it no longer carries it's legal status and so can't be submitted as a defence to show you had complied with the regulations. Agree it might still be good guidance, (everyone keeps saying this) but the trouble is the inspector can now interpret the law how he sees fit!

walker wrote:


By the way - where is a down loadable version of the new HSG 65?


not ready yet.. this is stated on the new management systems page.

Lets not even start to think about how many documents need to be changed as they reference the above.
Also NEBOSH are going to have to rewrite their syllabus' and have to address the fact that their syllabus' are built around guidance that no longer exists - how can this be addressed in the next exams? Should we still be teaching POPMR - when it no longer exists?

Is this really getting rid of red tape?

The duties after all remain the same..

Now that said HSG65 was in need of an update!
chris42  
#4 Posted : 16 August 2013 10:55:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Teh boy beat me to it, the web page has:-

A new edition of this popular guide will be published to reflect this change. You can sign up to our Publications ebulletin and we will let you know when it is available.

Chris

Chris L  
#5 Posted : 16 August 2013 13:29:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris L

Agree with some posts on here. HSG65 was in need of an update and while the guidance may change the principles remain the same and will for some time.

On a point with regards to compliance and an inspector interpreting the law. An inspector cannot interpret the law, only a judge can do this. An inspector can interpret legislation and express an opinion, but that is all they can do. If you disagree with anything an inspector or enforcement officer offers as an opinion or advice/guidance there is the Independent Regulatory Challenge Panel (IRCP) available to look into complaints regarding advice given by HSE or LA inspectors or about health and safety which you think is incorrect or goes beyond what is required to control the risk adequately.

I was an enforcement officer for a local council for some time and while the IRCP was not available back then I was always happy to discuss difference of opinions with regards to policies,procedures and systems during visits/inspections. A further point is that there is no statutory obligation to follow guidance or ACOP's issued by the HSE as long as you have something in place that is equal to or better than the guidance/ACOP. Obviously following the guidance/ACOP will ensure compliance, but there are plenty businesses and organisations that go far beyond what guidance and ACOP's expect and so do not follow HSE guidance or ACOP's, but are not at risk of prosecution.

Good guidance is good guidance and following the 'old HSG65' ACOP will not put anyone at risk of prosecution. My organisation use it (and will continue to do so until it is reviewed) for the core of our health and safety management systems and I work for a large Fire and Rescue Service. We have regular contact with the local HSE offices and our policies, procedures and systems have not been called into question by them. All you need to ensure is that your management system is robust, whatever management model, guidance or ACOP you are following.
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