Rank: Forum user 
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Dear All,
To train people in manual handling, what makes you a competent trainer. Its almost like chicken and egg, if you have to be trained by a trainer to be competent, who was the first person to be trained?
If you have acheived CMIOSH would that make you competent for Manula Handling training,
Thanks
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Rank: Super forum user
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Tony
Achieving CMIOSH may have given you the theory of manual handling and how to do risk assessments but from my experience it would not give your either the practical skills of manual handling nor the ability to train.
Training standards normally develop as the result of like minded people getting together to develop such standards so that there is a common syllabus etc. This is in fact how NEBOSH came about as prior to its inception there were all different sorts of qualifications available.
Your trainer may have been very good but if you yourself have not been trained to train how do you know what to do, especially when something crops up that you have not seen in his training.
Take care
John C
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi I'm new to this forum ! I started in my position Jan 13 and one of my first tasks was to undertake a manual handling course for all employees from mds ,office staff, general operatives right through to cleaners. My company sent me on a city & guilds train the trainer course, it was invaluable , I learned so many hints tips etc ,how to keep interest,how to deal with hecklers, the know it all, and go with the flow.
my confidence was boosted and I actually enjoyed giving the presentations.
The end result was positive feedback from all who attended ,much needed pat on the back from my employers and of course a more informed workforce who also enjoyed the experience.
regards Jim
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Rank: Super forum user
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I will be attending a manual handling train the trainer course with a local provider. I suppose it's all about proving competence and the best way to do this from a legal stand point is to get an accredit certification as with most walks of life.
Pete
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Rank: Forum user
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To answer your first question, completing a manual handling train the trainer course makes you competent. I did the same some years ago, it's a good course. Getting up in front of a room full of strangers and delivering for 3hrs is not easy (but gets easier).
In the beginning there would have been somebody who was knowledgable (competent) on the subject and able to construct the course content. Most of the pros on here would have (to a greater or lesser degree) created their own (in house) training courses, from scratch, and delivered them successfully. It's not rocket science, it's competence.
For me in the ROI the lines have been blurred as we require a national qualification (don't know what it's called but its purpose is trainer competence) to be allowed deliver certain courses. I could be wrong on this as I don't have the full details but my understanding is that I could no longer deliver the MMH training due to not having the trainer course done. I'm sure someone will provide more detail on this...
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Rank: Forum user 
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Mick, in ROI manual handling trainers require FETAC Level 6 qualification. The HSA Guildance is an essential reference for course content and most trainers I know are regularly updating their course content. Do ensure that if at all possible, you are familiar with the work environment in advance of training and use the manual handling risk assessments in the training to help highlight the hazards, teh controls and to raise awareness of the RAs.
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Rank: Forum user
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In the uk train the trainer training varies from a day to three months depending on the firm. The waste industry appears to settled on a few basic principles such that training can be delivered in under half an hour. Everything else is too technical. Academic evidence suggests that manual handling doesn't prevent the onset of back pain, just delays it. The other flaw is that back pain has a multiple aetiology.
My advice is save some of your training budget for physiotherapy and other interventions.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Personally I have mixed feelings about manual handling training. Whilst I think knowledge of the how the back works and can get injured is important, as is techniques in lifting safely, I am not a huge fan of formal manual handling courses that are irrelevant to the worker - the classic lifting a box!
For a lot of my clients that are not in normal industries (lifting tasks are variable in nature and environment) and are less likely to go attend a formal course, I end up suggesting that they could get in a DVD on the back (anatomy etc) and then undergo on the job training. I think on the job training is underestimated.
There is no legal requirement to have training carried out by a manual handling trainer. Training in itself is not the be all and end all.
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Rank: Forum user
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Claire
I think what you say is spot on.. Get people to do the best thing and try and stick to it
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Rank: Forum user
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Declan, I was trained as a MMH instructor (5 day TTT) some 14 years ago but I've not given a MMH course in about 10. One of the reasons I stopped was the requirement to have the FETAC trainers course done. I don't know if it's the same for UK colleagues but unless you've got this course (or another that's recognised) I don't think you can deliver the training. I have qualifications above level 6 but my guess is that this doesn't count as it's not training related.
The question it raises is what level of training can you do without this qual and hpw do you know where to draw the line?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Is the specialised train the trainer course better than a general PTLLS course then.
I also agree with Clairel views on this.
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Rank: New forum user
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I have completed the train the trainer course and the PTLLS, found that the PTLLS course was very helpful and enabled me to go on to provide better training packages, not just manual handling.
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Rank: Forum user
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I imagine the PTLLS is a specific course to train presenters/trainers etc. I would agree that a course solely dedicated to training trainers is more advantageous.
Clairel, have to say I don't agree with you. The standard MMH training is a foundation course upon which all other learning should be based. Of course hands-on is important, and must happen, but in the hands of a good trainer any class, with any range of skills will benefit.
Mick
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