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Birchall31628  
#1 Posted : 03 October 2013 13:13:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Birchall31628

Hi, not that this has happened, but does anyone know if there is any other common sense solution other than complete saturation in water if you get hydrochloric acid on your skin? Sorry, I am not a first aider.
Jane Blunt  
#2 Posted : 03 October 2013 13:17:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I would recommend water, and plenty of it.
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 03 October 2013 13:26:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As Jane said water and plenty of it- litres in fact. 10 minutes worth at least. This is why we have emergency showers everywhere (we have about 80 labs) and each lab has a plumbed-in eyewash. It is also why will not allow lab users to get rid of their eyewash stations (they take up too much room-whinge) and replace them with a couple of saline bottles. A litre of saline is just not enough.
DavidGault  
#4 Posted : 03 October 2013 13:39:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidGault

You say '...other than complete saturation in water...'
What are the circumstances? Do you have limited access to water?
johnld  
#5 Posted : 03 October 2013 13:45:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnld

Totally agree with what has been said by Jane and A Kurdziel have said.

However I had a run in with a rookie HSE Inspector some years ago who objected to plumbed in eye wash points and insisted that saline bottles be provided.

After representations to a senior inspector the objection was withdrawn
Kate  
#6 Posted : 03 October 2013 13:54:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

There are neutralising treatments on the market (eg Diphoterine) - but these are costly, and need training, and you probably still need to provide water as a backup.

Lots of water can't be wrong.

How concentrated is the acid though (if it's extremely dilute, it will be classed as irritant rather than corrosive)?
Jane Blunt  
#7 Posted : 03 October 2013 14:02:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Kate wrote:


How concentrated is the acid though (if it's extremely dilute, it will be classed as irritant rather than corrosive)?


.... and how much someone feasibly spill on them?
PIKEMAN  
#8 Posted : 03 October 2013 15:30:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

First aid information should be on the MSDS for this. Follow this advice. I would avoid using anything other than RUNNING water from a bottle or clean supply (this will dilute and remove the acid, keep it up for at least 10 mins to ensure that anything that has been absorbed into the skin is removed). Speak to the manufacturer or suppler; the MSDS should be giving you contact details which you can phone to get expert advice.
Mick Noonan  
#9 Posted : 03 October 2013 17:46:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mick Noonan

Kate, where I work we have access to 'Diphotherine' and I was able to attend a presentation given by the supplier. I hung back after class and had a proper discussion with him too. The advantage with this product is that it chemically consumes the acid (and other dangerous substances) as opposed to diluting with large volumes.

Don't get me wrong, don't go pulling out all your safety showers! It's just different and up until recently I'd never heard of the stuff even though it's been around for quite a while.

Just wondered if anyone else had an opinion on it. Don't mean to hyjack the thread.


Michael
IanS  
#10 Posted : 04 October 2013 12:25:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanS

One question to ask the Diphoterine salesman is "How much acid will it neutralise?" If it's anything like the response we got, you'll stick to copious amounts of water and leave the Diphoterine to the medical experts to use as 2nd aid.
Mandy Ellis  
#11 Posted : 04 October 2013 14:06:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mandy Ellis

A First Aider will be trained to run the affected area under water for 20 minutes or more. If an increased sensation of burning is experienced - then a further 10 minutes. You would then apply a cool wet towel to help relieve the pain, then cover with a sterile dressing and get them to hospital.
Doing anything else other than following regulated practice, would be a risk to the injured person.
John D C  
#12 Posted : 04 October 2013 15:13:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John D C

Diphoterine may well be good for small splashes on skin or in eyes but the containers are relatively small - their 'shower' version is only 5 litres - similar to a small fire extinguisher. Therefore they would not be suitable for larger splashes. Water is normally readily available so I would stick with it - it is also what all the major first aid organisations state.

Take care
JohnC
stevedm  
#13 Posted : 05 October 2013 17:12:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I have PM's some information that may help form a judgement...even the ambulance HART teams use water...
JP Bourke  
#14 Posted : 05 October 2013 19:32:23(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
JP Bourke

Interesting topic.
The issue with water is that it just cools the skin and flushes away any chemical that is left on the skin. Most corrosive chemicals cause a chemical burn on the skin surface but are also absorbed deeper into the tissue. Water will never draw this absorbed chemical back out of the tissue, which will continue to damage the tissue.
To the best of my knowledge and I am open to correction, if you are using a safety shower - it should deliver 60litres of water a minute and you're supposed to remain under it for 20 minutes!
From discussions with Diphoterine supplier, it not only flushes the chemical from the skin but also draws the chemical back out of the skin due to osmotic effect. As has been already said, it also chemically neutralises the chemical.
I do know of a facility where an operator was burned with 90% sulphuric or hydrochloride acid(apologies, can't remember which of the two), it occurred on a Saturday - I do believe he will require minor plastic surgery. Five of the five litre units were used on the individual on site and during the journey to hospital. He was released from hospital the following Thursday. Similar incident in Australia resulted in extensive plastic surgery for four individuals and one of them also had a leg amputated.

It really all depends on the type of facility you work in, risks associated - safety showers and Diphoterine are a last resort - and the resources available. Diphoterine is expensive, however it can be considered cheap if it delivers the type of outcome above.

By the way, I have no association with Prevor the company which manufacture Diphoterine! Hope my two cents are of use!!
Kate  
#15 Posted : 06 October 2013 08:14:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Using Diphoterine, if it's done quickly and correctly by someone trained to use it, is most certainly not a risk to the injured person; it will be better for them. Diphoterine and water each have their own advantages and disadvantages and as already mentioned, a lot depends on the situation.
Kate  
#16 Posted : 06 October 2013 08:18:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

In the first aid training I've had, we were told that in a workplace with chemical hazards there might be "antidotes" that we might get specific workplace training to use. First aid organisations most definitely do not rule out the use of treatments other than water for chemical splashes. Water is just the basic standard.
boblewis  
#17 Posted : 06 October 2013 09:57:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

You can of course drink HCl at low enough concentrations as it is commonly found in the human stomach. It has a citrus taste in common with most dilut inorganic acids.

Water is the easiest and cheapest answer making injury with concentrated acid a remote possibility
Kate  
#18 Posted : 06 October 2013 11:36:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

"Don't try this at home"
boblewis  
#19 Posted : 07 October 2013 08:55:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Kate wrote:
"Don't try this at home"



Was often done in school chemistry labs back in the late 50s:-)

Bob
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